Trying to Kill Social Security

[grandpa]

"It seems like every few months alarms are sounded warning US workers that Social Security is going bankrupt. Oftentimes, the follow up to these alarms includes a warning that the only way to save the system is by turning all or part of the funds involved over to Wall Street investment houses like Goldman Sachs. Usually the alarms are sounded by right wing politicians from the Republican Party. In recent years however, this cacophony of lies has been assisted by more and more Democrats."
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/06/...cial-security/

So what are your thoughts on this, particularly the claim about 'more and more Democrats" getting on board in the effort to kill it?

Grandpa h.

[Charlatan]

I think handing the social security over to secure investment is a great idea. If the social security account was to be, along with the state account, rolled into a banking scheme, i am all for it.

If the money grows, great. If it doesn't, borrow money from the federal reserve and write off the debt. Who knows? What will you not be able to afford to buy without this money? What will it cost the state?

The state account i find fascinating in it's 'isunderstodness'. If the state owes money to the federal reserve, who is that? I guess it is the american tax payer. If the american tax payer doesn't feel it, because there is more money circulating around them, then there is nothing to fear, is there? What will happen to the federal reserve when they borrow money and just don't poay it back? Is this a private institution? I don't think it is.

The american state basically makes money for itself. The only money that enters the system is regulated, so, instead of paying money back to a reserve where it dissapears for all we know, it circulates, providing jobs and all the other sweet stuff money can do.

If on the other hand, you pay it back to the reserve, it just goes and sits there.

I say we write it out of the bill of rights or whatever that you may go and grab your monies worth of gold for your dollars. If we were to look at it practically, gold is only used in jewellery and some machines - very impractical.

On the other hand, if we were to base our money in the country based on assets of the country, the more assets americans own the more money they have. They can go and buy a piece of property for each dollar they have, or a car, or whatever - just like what happens today - practically.

[Hermenutic]

Here is an interesting proposal by a Canadian military officer involving something called 'social credits'. http://www.mondopolitico.com/library...redit/p1c1.htm

It is not a new idea. It is an idea that has not been tried but he claims this method of arranging the economy would eliminate the bubble burst phenomenon that is intrinsic to the business practices in use today. I had first heard about it when reading about Ezra Pound and then decided to google it and see what it was all about.

It is decidedly an entirely different approach to making the economy work beneficially.

[Spy_007]

Social security will not go broke, but it will be drastically
reduced. Time will tell how much, but you can be pretty
sure that today's young will be totally screwed by the time they
qualify for it, getting back just a small portion of what they
paid in.

[Dodds]

"It seems like every few months alarms are sounded warning US workers that Social Security is going bankrupt. Oftentimes, the follow up to these alarms includes a warning that the only way to save the system is by turning all or part of the funds involved over to Wall Street investment houses like Goldman Sachs. Usually the alarms are sounded by right wing politicians from the Republican Party. In recent years however, this cacophony of lies has been assisted by more and more Democrats."
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/06/...cial-security/

So what are your thoughts on this, particularly the claim about 'more and more Democrats" getting on board in the effort to kill it?

Grandpa h.

The American political system has always been right wing. The GOP have pulled much further to the right dragging the Democrats with them. So the Dems using GOP tactics is not too surprising.

[Elithium]

The American people are right winged. The politicians are simply pandering to the religious majority.

Fortunately, theism is in decline. It will not die out any time in my life time but the trend does give me hope for my grand children.

The government shouldn't have a social security tax. They should simply have a tax. Then tax money should be paid to provide for the elderly. I think this would help to eliminate this retarded sense of entitlement that so many Americans have.

The American political system has always been right wing. The GOP have pulled much further to the right dragging the Democrats with them. So the Dems using GOP tactics is not too surprising.

[Hermenutic]

I'm living on SS now retired a few years ago. SS is okay if you don't want much of what is being offered for sale. The key is to have something else such as a 401k for the average schmuck like me. The savings can aid you in getting a place free and clear and then you just wait for Uncle Sam to send you pocket money every month.

I think SS works just fine and i wonder what the motivations are of those who would take this from the american people.

401k's are dangerous. In 2008 I went to work one night and came home $2000 poorer. I was old enough so i took my money out. Everyone I worked with lost. One guy lost over 100K. A friend who worked with me did the same thing recently when they began to steal from peoples savings again. He saved his retirement. If he hadn't he would have had to continue to work.

If the government really wanted to help they could, their priorities at the present time make it difficult for them to do what is right for the taxpayer.

[Elithium]

I'm living on SS now retired a few years ago. SS is okay if you don't want much of what is being offered for sale. The key is to have something else such as a 401k for the average schmuck like me. The savings can aid you in getting a place free and clear and then you just wait for Uncle Sam to send you pocket money every month.

I think SS works just fine and i wonder what the motivations are of those who would take this from the american people.

401k's are dangerous. In 2008 I went to work one night and came home $2000 poorer. I was old enough so i took my money out. Everyone I worked with lost. One guy lost over 100K. A friend who worked with me did the same thing recently when they began to steal from peoples savings again. He saved his retirement. If he hadn't he would have had to continue to work.

If the government really wanted to help they could, their priorities at the present time make it difficult for them to do what is right for the taxpayer.

SS and social medical programs are the majority of the US government expenditures. SS is bankrupt. It is kicking out more than it is bringing in. Because of the investments made in bonds, ss will continue be viable for another couple decades. However, it is simply NOT sustainable.

The entire calculation when it was started was based on the baby boomers. When we had a small retired population, a shorter life expectancy and a relatively large workforce with a small birth rate, America experienced a population dividend that allowed ss to be sustained. That is no longer the case. America now relies entirely on immigration for population growth, our life expectancy is more than a decade past retirement, and our economic growth is far more moderate.

SS must change.

[Hermenutic]

What kind of changes do you envision? As we know from experience the stock market is not to be counted on to provide stability and assurance and long term prospects for a pleasant future. What kind of project do you envision should be undertaken to promote the general welfare in this area? We have a problem to deal with as a society. It is the welfare of citizens who have participated all their lives in society. For the most part they have pulled their weight and gotten too old to do it anymore. What will society do when it decides to take SS away from them? Some societies just give their old a basket of food and lead them into the woods and leave them there. I doubt you are suggesting that. But you have given no hint what your proposal is except to say what we have now will not work forever the way it has worked up till now .

SS and social medical programs are the majority of the US government expenditures. SS is bankrupt. It is kicking out more than it is bringing in. Because of the investments made in bonds, ss will continue be viable for another couple decades. However, it is simply NOT sustainable.

The entire calculation when it was started was based on the baby boomers. When we had a small retired population, a shorter life expectancy and a relatively large workforce with a small birth rate, America experienced a population dividend that allowed ss to be sustained. That is no longer the case. America now relies entirely on immigration for population growth, our life expectancy is more than a decade past retirement, and our economic growth is far more moderate.

SS must change.

[Jack]

SS and social medical programs are the majority of the US government expenditures. SS is bankrupt. It is kicking out more than it is bringing in. Because of the investments made in bonds, ss will continue be viable for another couple decades. However, it is simply NOT sustainable.

The entire calculation when it was started was based on the baby boomers. When we had a small retired population, a shorter life expectancy and a relatively large workforce with a small birth rate, America experienced a population dividend that allowed ss to be sustained. That is no longer the case. America now relies entirely on immigration for population growth, our life expectancy is more than a decade past retirement, and our economic growth is far more moderate.

SS must change.

That's not the way Social Security works, and it can't go bankrupt. Note the distinction between Social Security and the trust fund.

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index....ckgroundid=628
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnthar...t-go-bankrupt/
http://news.investors.com/article/60...ged.htm?p=full
http://squashed.tumblr.com/post/1541...urity-bankrupt

[Elithium]

Elaborate please. Links are not elaboration.

That's not the way Social Security works, and it can't go bankrupt. Note the distinction between Social Security and the trust fund.

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index....ckgroundid=628
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnthar...t-go-bankrupt/
http://news.investors.com/article/60...ged.htm?p=full
http://squashed.tumblr.com/post/1541...urity-bankrupt

[Elithium]

I am not advocating that SS be ended, only that the "entitlements" are not entitlements but a social benefit. The government should not be running a deficit indefinitely simply to give you money.

Overall, I dislike the idea of a nanny state. If you (hypothetical, not you in particular as I know nothing about you) squandered your productive years and failed to provide yourself with a comfortable life style for your retirement, that's your problem not societies. It is quite possible that you contributed greatly to society but also took greatly from society. Having successfully survived long enough to reach 65 does not entitle you to a free pass.

What kind of changes do you envision? As we know from experience the stock market is not to be counted on to provide stability and assurance and long term prospects for a pleasant future. What kind of project do you envision should be undertaken to promote the general welfare in this area? We have a problem to deal with as a society. It is the welfare of citizens who have participated all their lives in society. For the most part they have pulled their weight and gotten too old to do it anymore. What will society do when it decides to take SS away from them? Some societies just give their old a basket of food and lead them into the woods and leave them there. I doubt you are suggesting that. But you have given no hint what your proposal is except to say what we have now will not work forever the way it has worked up till now .