No such thing as a Casual Libertarian?

[lsbskins1]

I think at this point the terms "libertarian," "centrist," "liberal" and "conservative" are practically meaningless. Prevalent support for Democrats is a good example of what's wrong
with "the left".

Grandpa h.

I feel so chastised and stupid now. What was I thinking, supporting the party that best represents my ideas?

[Dan74]

I feel so chastised and stupid now. What was I thinking, supporting the party that best represents my ideas?

You're a centrist. Grandpa is talking about the left. Since the Democratic Party of the USA is a quasi-centrist party, it makes sense that it represents your views.

[iolo]

You're a centrist. Grandpa is talking about the left. Since the Democratic Party of the USA is a quasi-centrist party, it makes sense that it represents your views.

lbskins is a liberal, in between progressives and conservatives, or would be in any country that used rational terminology. What the US has done to its politics is peculiar, and has had strange effects on language. It seems to me that the debate over there is mainly (leaving aside some remarkably intellignt people) between conservatives (Democrats) and extreme reactionaries (Republicans), but perhaps it is not the same everywhere. I hope not, certainly.

[lsbskins1]

lbskins is a liberal, in between progressives and conservatives, or would be in any country that used rational terminology. What the US has done to its politics is peculiar, and has had strange effects on language. It seems to me that the debate over there is mainly (leaving aside some remarkably intellignt people) between conservatives (Democrats) and extreme reactionaries (Republicans), but perhaps it is not the same everywhere. I hope not, certainly.

This makes me want to start a "How would you define lsbskins' political views" thread...

I don't even really know how to "define" my views, but being from the US, I am opperating from within that particular paradigm. One of the things that I think does define me as particularly "American" in outlook is a very deep belief in the necessity for a binding constitution. It is all well and good to consider our rights "natural" or "God-given", but since neither nature nor the hand of God can be counted upon to secure an individual's rights, I consider a strong central government to be essential. That is where I depart from the US brand of conservative and libertarian. It is why, I suspect, so many people are convinced I am such a leftist. It is why I get called a "nanny-statist". Call me silly, but even if I was the most adept human on the face of the planet at policing my own world and protecting my own interests, I would still think it right and good to have a government empowered to protect those who didn't have that ability. The alternatives offered to constitutionally enshrined rights scare the shit out of me. I don't want to live in a Stalinist Soviet State, where I have no rights and the state is all powerful, nor do I want to live in Somalia, where there is no state power and I have all the rights I can manage to secure with the right weaponry and an iron will. I much prefer our imperfections to those imperfections. Does that make me liberal? Does it make me centrist? I don't really care what kind of semantic games people want to play. I care that courts exist that are bound by law to protect the rights of the individual and I care that I get to vote to make my voice heard and I care that I am free from fear that someone will arrest me when I spout my opinions on politics and religion on a public forum.

[Dodds]

This makes me want to start a "How would you define lsbskins' political views" thread...

I don't even really know how to "define" my views, but being from the US, I am opperating from within that particular paradigm. One of the things that I think does define me as particularly "American" in outlook is a very deep belief in the necessity for a binding constitution. It is all well and good to consider our rights "natural" or "God-given", but since neither nature nor the hand of God can be counted upon to secure an individual's rights, I consider a strong central government to be essential. That is where I depart from the US brand of conservative and libertarian. It is why, I suspect, so many people are convinced I am such a leftist. It is why I get called a "nanny-statist". Call me silly, but even if I was the most adept human on the face of the planet at policing my own world and protecting my own interests, I would still think it right and good to have a government empowered to protect those who didn't have that ability. The alternatives offered to constitutionally enshrined rights scare the shit out of me. I don't want to live in a Stalinist Soviet State, where I have no rights and the state is all powerful, nor do I want to live in Somalia, where there is no state power and I have all the rights I can manage to secure with the right weaponry and an iron will. I much prefer our imperfections to those imperfections. Does that make me liberal? Does it make me centrist? I don't really care what kind of semantic games people want to play. I care that courts exist that are bound by law to protect the rights of the individual and I care that I get to vote to make my voice heard and I care that I am free from fear that someone will arrest me when I spout my opinions on politics and religion on a public forum.

Like button come back.

This is an excellent post. It is impossible to define what an individuals political beliefs are. Certain issues we agree with and certain ones we won't. But I do agree with your views on the USA and what is needed to protect individuals from tyranny of both the state and private sector.

As is well known I lean very much to the left of the political spectrum but there are certain things I will agree with the right about. To blindly follow party lines or to not have open and honest discourse about polices is a restriction of freedom as I see it.

[crimethinker]

It is impossible to define what an individuals political beliefs are. Certain issues we agree with and certain ones we won't.

Hardly. You may have aberrations in your politics, but broadly speaking, you can be measured along the two-dimensional Political Compass. It just doesn't supply a "full" definition. For that you need to flesh things out in a debate forum, I suppose.

http://politicalcompass.org/test

But people like to think their opinions and views are more complex than they really are, while I have yet to meet someone whose politics defied description. Me, I recognize that I'm a "liberal", or something like that. To be exact,

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82

As for libertarians - I used to be one, and I was very vocal, so that's one point in favor. But, I have met so-called "casual libertarians" who weren't interested in politics. They just have this feeling that they want to be left alone to live and do as they please. I appreciate that they've given enough thought to politics to reject both the American brands of conservatism and liberalism, I guess, but all too often they fall into that Alex Jones/Ron Paul/Zeitgeist (although Zeitgeist is anarcho-communist or something) realm of politics and conspiracy theories. I know I did.

[Dodds]

Hardly. You may have aberrations in your politics, but broadly speaking, you can be measured along the two-dimensional Political Compass. It just doesn't supply a "full" definition. For that you need to flesh things out in a debate forum, I suppose.

And this realization is why what I said was correct. For a Volconvo example, myself and Dan74 are both left wing, as is Grandpa. However we disagree on a lot of things. The use of government, the free market and revolution to be exact.

[crimethinker]

And this realization is why what I said was correct. For a Volconvo example, myself and Dan74 are both left wing, as is Grandpa. However we disagree on a lot of things. The use of government, the free market and revolution to be exact.

Which is why the political compass is more complex than "left wing" and "right wing". But congratulations, you have nuanced political beliefs. Just don't pretend that they're so nuanced, so unique, that they defy all explanation and definition, as if you're a 4th-dimensional being with incomprehensible politics. Defining is what we humans do, and amidst all the political philosophies we've conceived of, there's no reason not to partake. Unless you just want to appear extra special, despite there likely being thousands of people whose views match yours almost to a tax bracket.

[lsbskins1]

Hardly. You may have aberrations in your politics, but broadly speaking, you can be measured along the two-dimensional Political Compass. It just doesn't supply a "full" definition. For that you need to flesh things out in a debate forum, I suppose.

http://politicalcompass.org/test

But people like to think their opinions and views are more complex than they really are, while I have yet to meet someone whose politics defied description. Me, I recognize that I'm a "liberal", or something like that. To be exact,

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82

As for libertarians - I used to be one, and I was very vocal, so that's one point in favor. But, I have met so-called "casual libertarians" who weren't interested in politics. They just have this feeling that they want to be left alone to live and do as they please. I appreciate that they've given enough thought to politics to reject both the American brands of conservatism and liberalism, I guess, but all too often they fall into that Alex Jones/Ron Paul/Zeitgeist (although Zeitgeist is anarcho-communist or something) realm of politics and conspiracy theories. I know I did.

Me and Gandhi and the Dalai Lama...hanging out in the green box together, as always. I like the company I keep.

[Dan74]

http://politicalcompass.org/test

I never did understand that test. It assumes that everyone taking it is a capitalist, and doesn't take into account a lot of different views. It usually puts me at Left Libertarian, something I don't consider myself to be. Though once it put me near the "Stalin" point, which I also don't consider myself to be.

[Dodds]

I never did understand that test. It assumes that everyone taking it is a capitalist, and doesn't take into account a lot of different views. It usually puts me at Left Libertarian, something I don't consider myself to be. Though once it put me near the "Stalin" point, which I also don't consider myself to be.

Its got Hitler in the middle. So hows all the centrists doing?

[ironeagle]

Why not point out what is inaccurate, then.

What for the entire post is innacurate?