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Thread: Washed and Waiting - the story of a gay Christian

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    Igneous Magma
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    Washed and Waiting - the story of a gay Christian

    What is it like to be a Christian who believes the Bible’s teaching that homosexual activity is a sin and who realizes that he is sexually attracted to others of his sex? Wesley Hill knows the answer to that question. He decided that the only way he could be obedient to the Bible was to live a life of celibacy. He has written a book called Washed and Waiting in which he describes his experiences. Here is what he says about his reasons for writing the book:

    When I began to wrestle with my homosexuality in a serious way, I was a Christian and a committed church member. The first people with whom I wanted to talk about my experience of same-sex desires were the pastors and elders at my church. Compassionate and understanding people that they were, these leaders looked for books and resources to help me grapple with what I was facing.

    Disappointingly, however, we all came up short. There just didn’t seem to be any books we could find that described what it felt like to wrestle with homosexuality from the inside, as it were—as a Christian. There were plenty of books that talked about the causes and the results of homosexuality in individuals and families. There were also lots of books that talked about the “culture wars” and the relevant biblical passages and the governmental legislation about homosexuality and marriage. But, unfortunately, it was hard to find a personal, pastoral book that said, “Here is what it looks like to be a Christian and experience the reality of homosexuality firsthand. Here is my story…”

    That’s why I wrote my book—to describe, primarily for celibate gay Christians themselves, my experience of homosexual desires and my commitment to Christianity’s traditional position that sex is intended to be experienced only within marriage between a man and a woman. I wanted to assure gay Christians, many of whom remain deeply committed to Scripture, that their struggles—with the “why” questions, with loneliness, shame, and the hunger for love—are shared by many in the church. I wanted gay Christians to realize they aren’t alone as they seek, in their own way, to “grow up into Christ” (Ephesians 4:15) along with the rest of their fellow Christians.

    My hope is that this book will help pastors better understand what it looks and feels like to be a Christian facing the reality of one’s own broken sexuality.
    The result, I hope, will be a greater sensitivity to one another’s weaknesses, and a deeper commitment to “bear one another’s burdens” (Galatians 6:2) in the fellowship of Christ’s Body.
    The book is divided into three parts. In the first he describes his own experiences. In the second and third parts he studies the lives of Henri Nouwen and Gerard Manley Hopkins, who both faced the same problem and found the same solution to it.


    There are three groups of people who would be helped by reading this book.


    The first is Christians who face the same temptation that Hill does. They will find that they aren’t alone and that like any other Christian they can rely on God’s promise in 1 Corinthians 10:13,

    No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
    The second group is Christians who want to understand homosexuality better so they will know how to help those who are facing this problem
    .

    And the book will also help nonChristians understand what the Bible really teaches about this subject.


    There is a wide range of attitudes toward homosexuality on the part of professing Christians. At one extreme there are groups like the Westboro Baptist Church who condemn anyone who is tempted in this area and at the other are churches who encourage homosexuals to follow their impulses and who never warn them that what they are doing is wrong. The Bible teaches that we should avoid both these extremes and this book gives practical advice on how to do this.

    Here is a site where you can find out more about the Christian perspective of homosexuality.

    http://truefreedomtrust.co.uk/

    Test everything; hold fast what is good.
    1 Thessalonians 5:21 ESV
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    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    While it's certainly his right to live in whatever manner and believe whatever he likes, I still don't see why anyone would willingly associate with a blatantly bigoted institution that encourages people to think of themselves as evil and disgusting about facits of their person.



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    Macho Christian
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    I agree that you have found a solution and a noble one at that. However, another is conversion therapy and before we jump on the 'official' doesn't work stance given by the 'professionals' who (should) know better, there are thousands of cases of successful conversion and as an indivdual, there need only be one to succeed. Also, I've been on the inside of how the APA and other organizations arrive at their conclusions and it's not all based on theraputic fail to success statistics. They get lobbied hard and heavy and in the end, it's about financial success which is largely dependent on being politically correct.

    Now, as a devout Christian man with a high libido looking for a wife, I can tell you that if I did not have a high libido or had to first go through the diffuclt procss of conversion therapy, I would remain celibate. There are many benefits to remaining single and sexually entaglement free.

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    ...another is conversion therapy and before we jump on the 'official' doesn't work stance given by the 'professionals' who (should) know better...
    Like the man responsible for getting the American Psychiatric Association to drop homosexuality from its manual and replace it with his alternative, “sexual orientation disturbance,” to identify people whose sexual orientation, gay or straight, caused them distress?
    Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, considered by some to be the father of modern psychiatry, lay awake at 4 o’clock on a recent morning knowing he had to do the one thing that comes least naturally to him.

    Now here he was at his computer, ready to recant a study he had done himself, a poorly conceived 2003 investigation that supported the use of so-called reparative therapy to “cure” homosexuality for people strongly motivated to change.

    And he would later learn that a World Health Organization report, released on Thursday, calls the therapy “a serious threat to the health and well-being — even the lives — of affected people.”

    Dr. Spitzer’s fingers jerked over the keys, unreliably, as if choking on the words. And then it was done: a short letter to be published this month, in the same journal where the original study appeared.

    “I believe,” it concludes, “I owe the gay community an apology.

    I believe I owe the gay community an apology for my study making unproven claims of the efficacy of reparative therapy. I also apologize to any gay person who wasted time and energy undergoing some form of reparative therapy because they believed that I had proven that reparative therapy works with some "highly motivated" individuals.
    ”Reparative therapy, sometimes called “sexual reorientation” or “conversion” therapy, is rooted in Freud’s idea that people are born bisexual and can move along a continuum from one end to the other. Some therapists never let go of the theory, and one of Dr. Spitzer’s main rivals in the 1973 debate, Dr. Charles W. Socarides, founded an organization called the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, or Narth, in Southern California, to promote it.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/he...pagewanted=all

    ...there are thousands of cases of successful conversion and as an indivdual, there need only be one to succeed.
    Sorry, but that's not how science works. Those "thousands of cases" are poorly documented and inconclusive, and even if there had been one successful "conversion" that wouldn't prove the efficacy of the treatment.

    The APA Board of Trustees endorsed a position statement at its December meeting that opposes therapeutic techniques some psychiatrists and mental health professionals claim can shift an individual's sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual.

    The Board acknowledged that there is no evidence that these so-called "reparative therapies" have any efficacy in converting someone from one sexual orientation to another.

    The Board's unanimous endorsement of the statement and its passage by the Assembly one month earlier came 25 years after APA declared that homosexuality was not a mental illness and would thus be deleted from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Third Edition (DSM-III). As did the 1973 action, this decision by APA attracted considerable media attention, with articles and favorable editorials in several major newspapers throughout the country.

    "It is fitting," commented APA President Rodrigo Muńoz, M.D., "that this position opposing reparative therapy has been adopted on the 25th anniversary of the removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder from the DSM. There is no scientific evidence that reparative or conversion therapy is effective in changing a person's sexual orientation." He added that "there is, however, evidence that this type of therapy can be destructive."

    The statement also comes at a time when conservative religious groups are intensifying advertising campaigns that spread a message that homosexual desires can be overcome through conversion therapies and Christian transformation ministries.
    http://www.psychiatricnews.org/pnews...5/therapy.html



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  5. #5
    Macho Christian
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    Quote Quote by: Jack View Post
    Sorry, but that's not how science works. Those "thousands of cases" are poorly documented and inconclusive, and even if there had been one successful "conversion" that wouldn't prove the efficacy of the treatment.
    Define or qualiry conclusive documentation please.

    The heart has its reason which reason does not know.” - Blaise Pascal
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    Quote Quote by: Questatement View Post
    Define or qualiry conclusive documentation please.
    Scientifically monitored double-blind experiments with repeatable results.



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    Okay. Um. This is what I have lived through myself. I'm homosexual and Christian, that is to say that as an atheist homosexual I began to study the Bible and rejected my own homosexuality for the sake of my Bible beliefs. I no longer practice homosexual behavior.

    There is, really, a dangerous lot of material on this subject, I think because homosexuals have a tendency, for some reason or another, to believe in God. Smokers do, as well. Smoking queers, like myself, especially so. It is imperative that the homosexual not lose sight of who he or she is. You can't change it. A lot of people try to do that and end up killing themselves because such a big part of what they are is tied up in that. And this from someone, such as myself, would like to thing that there is not that much tied up in it. But there is.

    It really amounts to what do you want and why. And there is of course the pointless debate of where homosexuality comes from.

    The Theist | Examining The Real Meaning Of The Bible

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    Quote Quote by: Jack View Post
    While it's certainly his right to live in whatever manner and believe whatever he likes, I still don't see why anyone would willingly associate with a blatantly bigoted institution that encourages people to think of themselves as evil and disgusting about facits of their person.
    Really? Isn't that what it is all about? Are you not only projecting your own current societal norm and then asking to define what those disgusting and evil facets are?

    Don't play God especially if you are an atheist.

    The Theist | Examining The Real Meaning Of The Bible

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    The sentencing of Dharun Ravi for the hateful abuse that may have driven his gay roommate at Rutgers, Tyler Clementi, to commit suicide, or Barack Obama’s public acceptance of gay marriage, prevents many of us from seeing that life for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people is getting worse—much worse.

    No one understands this better than the gay activist and pastor Mel White. White, along with his husband and partner of 30 years, Gary Nixon, founded Soulforce, an organization committed to using nonviolent resistance to end religion-based oppression. White and hundreds of Soulforce volunteers protest outside megachurches that preach hatred and bigotry in the name of religion. White travels to communities where young gays, lesbians, bisexuals or transgender people have committed suicide. He holds memorial services for them in front of the church doors. He accuses the pastors of these churches of murder. His books “Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America” and “Holy Terror: Lies the Christian Right Tell Us to Deny Gay Equality,” are two of the most important works that examine the innate cruelty and proto-fascism of the Christian right. White, more than perhaps any other preacher in the country, has pulled young men and women back from the brink of despair, from succumbing to the tragic fate of Tyler Clementi. And White is scared.

    “What kind of environment creates a Dharun Ravi who would carry out that kind of bullying, as well as a kid like Tyler who would become a victim of that kind of bullying?” White asked when I reached him by phone at his home in Long Beach, Calif. “It is society. At its heart it is the church. The churches should be convicted, not just Ravi. He’s just an extension of the hatred that people feel about this threat, this gay threat. Pope Benedict XVI should be on trial. Richard Land from the Southern Baptists should be on trial. Religious leaders, Protestant and Catholic, should be on trial. They made this happen, but too few Americans make the connection.”

    White applauds President Obama for taking a personal stand for marriage equality. But he also notes that the president’s statement was accompanied by a reiteration that states have the right to determine their own policies toward marriage.

    Despite gains by gays in the wider culture, especially in the entertainment industry, and despite the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” the civil rights of gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people in most states are deteriorating, White said.

    “Too many of my sisters and brothers in the gay community don’t seem to understand the power of religion,” White lamented. “They have been rejected by religion. They hate the idea of religion. Therefore, they’re not going to deal with religion, which is fatal, because religion is the heart of homophobia. Without religion there would be no homophobia. What other source of homophobia is there but six verses in the Bible? When Bible literalists preach that LGBT people are going to hell they become Christian terrorists. They use fear as their weapon, like all terrorists. They are seeking to deny our religious and civil rights. They threaten to turn our democracy into a fundamentalist theocracy. And if we don’t reverse the trend, there is the very real possibility that in the end we will all be governed according to their perverted version of biblical law.”
    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...ays_20120528//



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    Zombified Deity xx_mortekai_xx's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: The Theist View Post
    Okay. Um. This is what I have lived through myself. I'm homosexual and Christian, that is to say that as an atheist homosexual I began to study the Bible and rejected my own homosexuality for the sake of my Bible beliefs. I no longer practice homosexual behavior.

    There is, really, a dangerous lot of material on this subject, I think because homosexuals have a tendency, for some reason or another, to believe in God. Smokers do, as well. Smoking queers, like myself, especially so. It is imperative that the homosexual not lose sight of who he or she is. You can't change it. A lot of people try to do that and end up killing themselves because such a big part of what they are is tied up in that. And this from someone, such as myself, would like to thing that there is not that much tied up in it. But there is.

    It really amounts to what do you want and why. And there is of course the pointless debate of where homosexuality comes from.
    I just want to get you on the record as saying that god actually makes people who are born gay, and that being gay is not a choice.

    Would you agree on those two points? Im not trying to set you up, i just want to have a professed christian that agrees on those two points say just that.


  11. #11
    Macho Christian
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    Quote Quote by: Jack View Post
    Scientifically monitored double-blind experiments with repeatable results.
    Can you give me an example of this in the field of psychology? Thanks.

    The heart has its reason which reason does not know.” - Blaise Pascal
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  12. #12
    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Questatement View Post
    Can you give me an example of this in the field of psychology? Thanks.
    Nope, which is why psychology isn't science and "reparative therapies" are a load of crap.



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