Theists who become atheists

[finder]

You don't know how to read, do you? I said *IN RETROSPECT*, I recognize what I was actually doing at the time, I simply didn't see it at the time that I believed it. It's the same thing that you're doing right now, even though you're incapable of recognizing it right now. Maybe some day you will.

And no, your faith doesn't require a thing, but this is a debate forum and as such, you are obligated to support your claims with evidence. Since you have no evidence to present, as we both already know, then you should stop making such claims. I know you won't but that just demonstrates the utter futility of your beliefs. That's up to you, of course. It just makes your beliefs look more and more silly.

You have produced no evidence to support your belief system. So, since you have none you make atheism look silly.

[finder]

im simply going by observation. You seem to be so sure that Cephus was never a christian that you are making wild claims that you cannot possibly support, all based on your OPINION of what a true christian is. I dont have to see your mind to see your concern and unwillingness to accept a simple truth: that not all true christians stay stuck in the mind fog of christianity. some of us use our supposedly god given brains to think about things and reason. What kind of god gives us a brain that can use reason and logic and then demand that we not use it?

If you comprehended in the least my op you would not make such silly remarks. I base my conclusions on what atheists say and what they don't say.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

If you comprehended in the least my op you would not make such silly remarks. I base my conclusions on what atheists say and what they don't say.

You are basing your conclusions on your perception of what atheists are, and considering your demonstrated ability to not understand what people are clearly communicating, I cant trust that your observations are the least bit accurate. Your exchange with Cephus is a clear example of what I am talking about. You insist that he couldnt have possibly been a true believer, because the model of a true believer who turns away is impossible for you to accept. Instead, you misread what he says and inject your own preconceptions on what he says to make it more acceptable to you.

You claim you believe. I accept that, because to deny it is to claim that I know what is in your mind. I cant possibly know that.

Cephus claims he believed. You dont accept that, and by denying it, you are necessarily claiming that you know what was in his mind when he was a believer.

Thats a nice trick. Does that come with the whole true believer package?

[Cephus]

You have produced no evidence to support your belief system. So, since you have none you make atheism look silly.

Which belief system might that be? Let's watch you demonstrate that you have no clue what atheism is.

[finder]

You claim you believe. I accept that, because to deny it is to claim that I know what is in your mind. I cant possibly know that.

Cephus claims he believed. You dont accept that, and by denying it, you are necessarily claiming that you know what was in his mind when he was a believer.

Thats a nice trick. Does that come with the whole true believer package?

Wrong. I never said he or any other former theist didn't really believe. I said they didn't ever entrust themselves to their professed belief. It is because I say that their feathers get ruffled. Too bad, it's the truth.

[finder]

Which belief system might that be? Let's watch you demonstrate that you have no clue what atheism is.

The same way you demonstrated you have no idea what theism is? Atheism is the unbelief in any god. How'd I do?

[Cephus]

Wrong. I never said he or any other former theist didn't really believe. I said they didn't ever entrust themselves to their professed belief. It is because I say that their feathers get ruffled. Too bad, it's the truth.

You keep running around telling everyone what they think, no matter how many times you're told that you're wrong. The delusion is strong in this one.

[Cephus]

The same way you demonstrated you have no idea what theism is? Atheism is the unbelief in any god. How'd I do?

It's the lack of belief in god(s), at which there is no way to provide evidence for the belief because there IS NO BELIEF!

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Which belief system might that be? Let's watch you demonstrate that you have no clue what atheism is.

seriously. Anyone who refers to atheism as a belief system is starting with a MAJOR misunderstanding.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Wrong. I never said he or any other former theist didn't really believe. I said they didn't ever entrust themselves to their professed belief. It is because I say that their feathers get ruffled. Too bad, it's the truth.

Once again, how can you possibly make that assertion? You cannot know that they did not, and therefore are making an assertion born from your desire to make reality conform to what you need it to be.

I hate to tell you this, but I was a believer as well. I felt the calling from god to become a priest, and in preparation for that task, studied my bible, cover to cover, in an attempt to become closer to god so that he could lead me in the way he wished.

I found myself stymied when i found that the bible did more to weaken my faith than strengthen it. In fact, my study then was the catalyst that led me from a devout believer ready to do as god wished, to the atheist I am today.

I know you think that I never gave myself over or anything like that, but I did. I felt god's calling. I KNEW what god wanted me to do. I had devoted my life to the lord and had absolutely no hesitations about it.

And I was wrong. All while following what I thought was the calling of god. I know better now, simply because I have expanded myself FAR more since I fell than I ever did as a christian.


So, again, your claim is simply untrue. The fact that you cannot accept that makes your delusion obvious.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

It's the lack of belief in god(s), at which there is no way to provide evidence for the belief because there IS NO BELIEF!

but the DICTIONARY says that you have to believe no gods exist!

I guess the concept of "i dont believe you" is foriegn to some people?

[Jack]

In my op I addressed the fact that no former theist that became atheist describes the union/the joining of spirits between they and God. That is because it never happened with them.

To say "it" never happened with them is a pretty broad jump to a possibly unwarranted conclusion. Here's why. It's quite likely that no atheist has used the exact formula you want to hear because they use different terms. For instance, can you describe in detail the exact mechanism of joining or uniting spirits with god? What are the steps involved and what indicates a positive outcome? If you can't say precisely what that concept represents then it's possible that atheists have experienced what you describe and simply use other words to describe it. Perhaps the fact that I started out with evangelicals and ended up with Catholics means that my terminology is unfamiliar to you or other theists. On the other hand, if you're describing a practice unique to your denomination's dogma then it could be that those of us who weren't members of your denomination didn't share the experience you refer to. For example, the Pentecostals expect a "true believer" to speak in tongues while a Episcopalian wouldn't.

So the whole matter of your dashed expectations may come down to a lack of agreement on terminology.

...in my case God is "more real" in the sense I see his presence...

Literally? Have you actually seen your god, or are you using "see" and "presence" metaphorically?