Why the Bible?

[truthreality]

I was watching a video in which Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias made an argument as to why the Bible should be considered seriously.

Why the Bible? Ravi Zacharias at the University of Illinois - YouTube

Here is a summary of what he said:

There are 66 books by nearly 40 different authors over 1500 years.

If the Bible made several claims that one found out to be false either historically or philosophically or existentially then one has reason to believe they cannot trust it.

He states that "the Bible is a very unique piece of literature compared to any other religious document."

"When you take the scriptures disclosed over centuries, 40 different authors 66 books and you see the prophetic schemer all the way down to Jesus."

Zacharias claims that the Book of Daniel predicts the fall of the Alexander empire. He talks about a massive empire that will come into being. That empire will be divided into four. The empire will be led by "a strident, strong heedgoat from the west who will be marching several nations under foot but shall be suddenly cut off and his empire will be divided into four. Those four then emerge into two and those two blend into one." He claims when you take the Book of Daniel written before and put it onto the Alexandar empire you see the prophecy. He claims that this prophecy was centuries before.

Then he speaks of the prophecy of Zacarias who describes the crucifiction of Jesus. "'They shall look upon him who they have pierced and weep as a mother weeps for her only son.' You go to the prophecy of Isaiah and see how Jesus is going to suffer immediately you see the supernatural."

He says "when you see the miraculous element and the historical element and it all points to one perfect person, Jesus."

He then cites a scholar, Bruce Metzer, from Princeton who states "when you take the 20,000 lines of the New Testament it is safe for any scholar to say there is at least a 99.6% accuracy." Zacharias goes on to say "no ancient document has the kind of documentary support that the Bible has. Over 5000 documents."

Zacharias then states that in an article in Time Magazine in 1988, Richard Olsen said that "one thing we cannot deny the Christians is the type of documentation that is available across the centuries. Nothing in ancient literature matches it"

Zacharias concluded with the following statement. "When you have got this kind of documentation, this kind of accuracy, that kind of a person in the person of Christ, I think you have pretty compelling evidence."

What are your thoughts?

[hensatri]

There are plenty of other books and mythologies that are just as old and complex. There are plenty more oral traditions that pre-date the habit of consistantly recording things that seem to have been every bit as complex. There are literaly thousands of prophets, messiahs, gurus, and oracles in history that were widly followed, well atested, and firmly beleived by significant portions for the population.

The Bible should be taken seriously, as mythology and literature, the exact same way I take all other mythology and literature seriously.

[Charlatan]

Okay, but why a church?

Have you ever felt high when you sing in church? I am sure we all have at some point in our lives. Why is that? I would guess that it comes down to there being a lot of positive thoughts inside the church, and this energy, which we haven;t documented yet, as nobody has felt the need or whatever, to be not of god, but of each other.

If we were to gather in a stadium for a concert, we would feel the same 'vibrations', all high on euphoria. Or so I have heard...

Now, why do we feel so high on music? Is it explainable? Yes, everything is explainable, but maybe not yet, or maybe it is?

Now, if we were to read from the bible, we also feel high. That is why we do it, we wouldn't want to do something that doesn;t 'fill' us, yes? Then why do we feel high when we read from the bible? Is it some hypnotic influence over us from space? Is it mumbo jumbo? Some people feel low when hey read the bible, so why do we feel things when we are exposed to them? Is it beyond normal feeling? I doubt it!

We feel high because the words are written by someone long ago, and, we feel high because they are inside a very highly regaurded book. When we normally read, we feel different to how we do when we read the bible, yes?

Now, if you were to read the bible and sing the words, the feeling ca be quite euphoric. Does this happen to hardcore athiests that would lie? I bet it does, but, that is not evidence yet. The evidence comes when we are idling along and then remember these things, subconsciously.

So, every art form has a mental influence on us. Why is the bible fine tuned to make us feel full of hope and joyous? Is this some vibration from space? Maybe the muti men are behind it? No, this is the embrace of god, and it can be felt as if you embrace someone living. that is the holy spirit that fills you, not as reading a normal piece of work.

Try it out for yourself.

[minorwork]

Pick and choose the parts to be included by filtering out accounts that do not confirm prophecy. So the Bible was edited with intent. Even books within the Bible recieved the edits.

[Charlatan]

Pick and choose the parts to be included by filtering out accounts that do not confirm prophecy. So the Bible was edited with intent. Even books within the Bible recieved the edits.

Yes, they were filtered, but, if they didn;t have anything to say, what would be the point in including them?

Or, if they were about other things, they wouldn;t be prophecy, but, what are you exactly refering to? The book of ruth has no prophecy, for example...

So, what is this prophecy you speak of exactly? Jesus? I would say that anything written with the intent on being about god or Jesus should be included.

[minorwork]

Yes, they were filtered, but, if they didn;t have anything to say, what would be the point in including them?

Two pronouns referencing different antecedents? If I was to filter your question, were I to edit it, I'd have some goal in mind, eliminate pronouns.

Does the Bible have the message that the editors intended? Of course. Any book gets rejected that would indicate failed prophecy. That is but one filter of many.
But who are the editors or editor of the Bible? Bible thumpers insist God is the editor. Can you believe that?

Or, if they were about other things, they wouldn;t be prophecy, but, what are you exactly refering to? The book of ruth has no prophecy, for example...

Ask the editors what their intent was. Expect complex and many layered goals. Does an editor select for truth when it would hamper his goals?

So, what is this prophecy you speak of exactly? Jesus? I would say that anything written with the intent on being about god or Jesus should be included.

OK. Now you're editing. Are you sure you want to include anything written about Jesus? Were you alive and watching, are you sure you'd include his activity with prostitutes in detail? I doubt it. You might construct a hero myth as it has been done by those before you.

In any case, an edited anthology of books can be more a vision of the editor than the authors. And then, since it is an anthology, the term to describe he who does the act of deciding which books to include in the anthology is compiler. When was the Bible as we know it first compiled and put into the context as we know it? | Ask Gramps

[Charlatan]

Two pronouns referencing different antecedents? If I was to filter your question, were I to edit it, I'd have some goal in mind, eliminate pronouns.

Does the Bible have the message that the editors intended? Of course. Any book gets rejected that would indicate failed prophecy. That is but one filter of many.
But who are the editors or editor of the Bible? Bible thumpers insist God is the editor. Can you believe that?

Ask the editors what their intent was. Expect complex and many layered goals. Does an editor select for truth when it would hamper his goals?

OK. Now you're editing. Are you sure you want to include anything written about Jesus? Were you alive and watching, are you sure you'd include his activity with prostitutes in detail? I doubt it. You might construct a hero myth as it has been done by those before you.

In any case, an edited anthology of books can be more a vision of the editor than the authors. And then, since it is an anthology, the term to describe he who does the act of deciding which books to include in the anthology is compiler. When was the Bible as we know it first compiled and put into the context as we know it? | Ask Gramps

Well, if it was a book of gibberish, then i would understand. But it isn't! It is about what god said to people and did with them.

If there is a way around this book, well, it has been tried before. It remains because nobody has had a platform to denounce it properly. Could you? How could anybody come into this western world and find the ability to stand against these masses? Imagine being hussled out of your house at all hours by bible bashers?

Now what I see in the bible is that it accounts for the acts and stuff of many people before us. Why would anybody lie? Did they see the big churches and money? Did they seek fame in a pagan world? Imagine how hard it was to change to this bible and religion when it first came out? How would they prove the works of god? How could they claim that this was the new way - you have seen what the moslems do at present, imagine them less civilized, and, more vigilant? They were not looking for anything to bring to the world except for the worshipping of thier god.

Now, let's say they are con men, hell bent on bringing the downfall of other men upon them, and then they took money too, does this sound like what happened?

[truthreality]

Okay, but why a church?

Okay, but why not a temple?

Have you ever felt high when you sing in church?

No.

I am sure we all have at some point in our lives.

If that were the case then everyone would be a Christian. Clearly not everyone is so obviously not everyone has felt such at some point in their life.

Why is that?

The same reason people feel so at a Temple or Mosque. They feel the presence of God.

I would guess that it comes down to there being a lot of positive thoughts inside the church, and this energy, which we haven;t documented yet,

People who go to Temples feel the vibrations of positive thoughts and energy. That's why they go.

as nobody has felt the need or whatever, to be not of god, but of each other.

There are plenty of people who have felt the need to be not of God, Lucifer for example.

If we were to gather in a stadium for a concert, we would feel the same 'vibrations', all high on euphoria. Or so I have heard...

So what's the need to go to church then? I rather go to a stadium or concert.

Now, why do we feel so high on music?Is it explainable?

Listening to music causes the brain to release dopamines.

Yes, everything is explainable, but maybe not yet, or maybe it is?

Not everything is explainable. Ask a Christian or Scientist.

Now, if we were to read from the bible, we also feel high.

Some feel high when they read the Upanishads or fairy tales.

That is why we do it, we wouldn't want to do something that doesn;t 'fill' us, yes?

There are times when we do the right thing regardless of whether it fills us or not.

Then why do we feel high when we read from the bible?

Why do some feel high when they watch a movie?

Is it some hypnotic influence over us from space? Is it mumbo jumbo? Some people feel low when hey read the bible, so why do we feel things when we are exposed to them? Is it beyond normal feeling? I doubt it!

We feel certain ways when we are exposed to things as the result of our mind and brain.

We feel high because the words are written by someone long ago, and, we feel high because they are inside a very highly regaurded book. When we normally read, we feel different to how we do when we read the bible, yes?

No, I felt more high reading Harry Potter.

Now, if you were to read the bible and sing the words, the feeling ca be quite euphoric.

Hindus who chant Mantras feel euphoric as well.

Does this happen to hardcore athiests that would lie?

Atheists are not synonymous with lies. Many hardcore atheists feel euphoric when they sing non-biblical songs.

I bet it does, but, that is not evidence yet.

If that were the case then they wouldn't be atheists.

So, every art form has a mental influence on us.

True

Why is the bible fine tuned to make us feel full of hope and joyous?

Why do Disney movies make us feel more hopeful and joyous?

Is this some vibration from space?

More like a vibration from the mind.

Maybe the muti men are behind it? No, this is the embrace of god, and it can be felt as if you embrace someone living. that is the holy spirit that fills you, not as reading a normal piece of work.

The Bible is a normal piece of work.

Try it out for yourself.

Thanks I have. I didn't get the same results as you.

[minorwork]

Well, if it was a book of gibberish, then i would understand. But it isn't! It is about what god said to people and did with them.

The Bible was compiled to give you that impression... ...by men. The Book of Job shows signs of multiple editors who might have thought the original poetry placed the LORD in too harsh a light. As if that were possible.

If there is a way around this book, well, it has been tried before. It remains because nobody has had a platform to denounce it properly. Could you?

I denounce it properly from my chair.

Why would anybody lie? Did they see the big churches and money? Did they seek fame in a pagan world? Imagine how hard it was to change to this bible and religion when it first came out? How would they prove the works of god? How could they claim that this was the new way - you have seen what the Moslem's do at present, imagine them less civilized, and, more vigilant? They were not looking for anything to bring to the world except for the worshiping of their god.

Your first question confirmed, answer the rest. Beg the question.

Now, let's say they are con men, hell bent on bringing the downfall of other men upon them, and then they took money too, does this sound like what happened?

Ignoring the hero with a thousand faces will not aid in understanding the phenomena surrounding the individual who gains from a powerful transcendent experience. Nor can ignoring the defects of those surrounding the hero who would drive him to the leadership role of the masses own suiting, only to turn on him when the leader fails to deliver.

[truthreality]

Yes, they were filtered, but, if they didn;t have anything to say, what would be the point in including them?

To convert people to their point of view.

Or, if they were about other things, they wouldn;t be prophecy, but, what are you exactly refering to? The book of ruth has no prophecy, for example...

Your over complicating the discussion.

So, what is this prophecy you speak of exactly? Jesus? I would say that anything written with the intent on being about god or Jesus should be included.

Hmm...but that's not the case. The Book of Revelations includes more than just Jesus.

[truthreality]

Well, if it was a book of gibberish, then i would understand. But it isn't! It is about what god said to people and did with them.

Are you referring to the Old or New Testament? The New Testament is what Jesus did with the people. Jesus isn't God.

If there is a way around this book, well, it has been tried before. It remains because nobody has had a platform to denounce it properly. Could you?

Many people have denounced it properly. Yes, I could.

How could anybody come into this western world and find the ability to stand against these masses?

Hate to break it to it but the western world is moving farther and farther away from Christianity.

Imagine being hussled out of your house at all hours by bible bashers?

Quite the contrary it is Bible supporters who come to my house more often then Bible bashers.

Now what I see in the bible is that it accounts for the acts and stuff of many people before us.

Oh really?

Why would anybody lie?

Your kidding right?

Did they see the big churches and money? Did they seek fame in a pagan world?

No but they saw how they could gain power over people.

Imagine how hard it was to change to this bible and religion when it first came out?

Yes because others had strong faith in there religion and culture and Christians tried to change that.

How would they prove the works of god?

Through false miracles.

How could they claim that this was the new way - you have seen what the moslems do at present, imagine them less civilized, and, more vigilant?

Muslims are to Christianity as Christians are to Judaism.

They were not looking for anything to bring to the world except for the worshipping of thier god.

And destroying other people's Gods.

Now, let's say they are con men, hell bent on bringing the downfall of other men upon them, and then they took money too, does this sound like what happened?

There are other ways of corruption other than taking money...gaining power over people for example.

[Questatement]

There are literaly thousands of prophets, messiahs, gurus, and oracles in history that were widly followed, well atested, and firmly beleived by significant portions for the population.

Yet, the anti-theIst stems on just one collection of 66 books?

Coincidene?