Killing unarmed black teenagers in Orlando is fine if you're white.

[Darklordabc]

Would you shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, I guess I do need to justify my being in proximity to children whenever someone takes the notion to wonder about me because I do fit that external pedophile profile" or would you become more and more angry every time it happened?

I have to accept some extra level of scrutiny for the rest of my life, within reasonable limits off course. Arabs will have to expect more attention at airports, for as long as Islam is a creating terrorists, and blacks will have to accept more attention until blacks as a group improve their averages. Obviously there is limits to the amount of attention that is reasonable, but it must be truly extraordinary circumstances to warrant a violence reaction like Martin did. I wouldn't smash a mothers head against the ground because I was sick of people profiling me as a pedophile.

Whats the alternative? We just assume everybody is the same threat, in all situations, at the expense of extra risk to ourselves and our family, because some groups are getting angrier and angrier?

[lsbskins1]

I have to accept some extra level of scrutiny for the rest of my life, within reasonable limits off course. Arabs will have to expect more attention at airports, for as long as Islam is a creating terrorists, and blacks will have to accept more attention until blacks as a group improve their averages. Obviously there is limits to the amount of attention that is reasonable, but it must be truly extraordinary circumstances to warrant a violence reaction like Martin did. I wouldn't smash a mothers head against the ground because I was sick of people profiling me as a pedophile.

Whats the alternative? We just assume everybody is the same threat, in all situations, at the expense of extra risk to ourselves and our family, because some groups are getting angrier and angrier?

Let's begin by saying that the "smashing of the head into the pavement" is a fact that is in dispute. But lets assume it happened. Zimmerman isn't one of those "weaker women" you see everywhere around you. It would seem he is one of those aggressive men you see everywhere. He was charged with assaulting a police officer at one point. It has been alleged he was fired from a previous security job after he literally threw a "weak woman" out of a party, causing her to injure an ankle. According to the source of this information, he was viewed as hot tempered and overly aggressive. Another fact that is in dispute, but that is one I suspect can be flushed out in a court of law. Seems to me, chances are pretty good, if Martin was bashing his head on the ground, it was because the hot tempered and overly aggressive Zimmerman himself turned what should have been a relatively annoying but not violent situation into a tragic and very violent one.

[ruksak]

All I have seen lately on this thread is the same shit just being rehashed, with a twist here and there.

Basically we have people who put more relevance to Trayvons girlfriend’s phone call then the accounts presented by 2 Eye witnesses on the scene. They are discounted for some reason. ABC even went as far as naming the 13 year old witness Austin Brown,(why the fuck name him?) and the other eye witness John…who is still just John… but everyone is supposed to believe the girl on the phone who wants’ to be known only as Deedee.

So we are supposed to believe DeeDee the girlfriend who was on the phone and hasn’t been interviewed publically….we are not supposed to believe the bias Zimmerman family who are speaking for their hiding brother or son... who also have been interviewed publically….and don’t believe Joe Oliver a character witness and close black friend who has been publically interviewed…but then we are left to wonder where Trayvons character witnesses are. Maybe they are out getting trademarks?

Then again maybe DeeDee needs another month to remember more of the conversation while waiting on the best big buck offer for a public interview. Who could blame her, eh?

Then we have people who adamantly state they hear the word ‘coons’ which even the best sound engineers won’t admit. I bet those same people can hear me right now through their computer speakers or headphones saying bullshit.

Then we have those who swear Zimmerman doesn’t have any wounds because they don’t see them on the video supplied by ABC. Then video technicians enhance images to show a wound on the back of Zimmermans head. Then these same people say…. Not good enough, the video is too grainy…can’t tell…

Then we get maps of the condo complex showing where the shooting took place. Also supplied is a large area showing where Zimmerman’s vehicle “may have been”. Yippee, cool stuff….now what does it tell us? Does this prove (beyond all reasonable doubt) that Zimmerman was not returning to his vehicle when attacked by Trayvon?

Then Trayvon decided to run after telling Deedee he wasn’t going to run? But then he couldn’t outrun Zimmerman? Then Trayvon got pushed….alrighty then.



The F.B.I. has been involved for over 2 weeks. They are pretty good at discovering cover-ups, analyzing audio and video tapes, that sort of stuff. While being methodical they might be a little slow since they haven’t made an arrest yet. I don’t know why Zimmerman hasn’t been arrested for carrying the gun that some say was against the law. That simple charge should have been established early by the F.B.I wouldn’t you think?

So did CNN get this right?

At first glance, the death of Trayvon Martin seemed to be a straightforward example of ugly, racial conflict resulting in the killing of an innocent black teenager by a white man, George Zimmerman. But now, as evidence continues to come forward, the facts seem much more complicated and the "obvious truth" premature.

The Miami Herald reported that in the gated community in which Zimmerman patrolled, there were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one shooting in the past year. Neighbors of Zimmerman described him as being passionate about security and credit him with thwarting and cracking some crimes. It was also revealed that Zimmerman identified himself as a Hispanic and was a registered Democrat.

The facts are confounding and inconclusive. But the tendency in the first days by some, including Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and an angry chorus of followers, was to rush to judgment with little regard for fairness, due process, or respect for the terrible death of a young man

A mob mentality seems to be in the ascendancy.

Rush to judgment in Trayvon Martin case - CNN.com

Then you have Al Sharpton calling for breaking the law through ‘civil disobedience’ until Zimmerman is arrested. Inciting racial tensions and fanning the flames of discord and rebellion without knowing what is even happening with the case. This man and others like him including Spike Lee, and Roseanne Barr, will instead need to be behind bars if their rhetoric, stupidity, and total self absorption gets even one person a paper cut, assaulted, or god forbid a death.

This is about JUSTICE!....Justice for Zimmerman as well as Trayvon. *This isn’t a two way street that should be allowed to turn into a one way 'railroad' track.

*trademark applied for*

George Zimmerman Trayvon Al Sharpton: Rev. Al Sharpton will escalate efforts if George Zimmerman isn't arrested in Trayvon's death. - Orlando Sentinel

First of all, great post, Ripper. Very well done indeed.

What's bothering me about this case now, is the wholesale assumption that race was the catalyst for the confrontation. I don't care what color he is, a teenager walking around at night is by default a suspicious person, period. I'm still looking for the little assholes that stabbed my tires, along with 23 other cars in my neighborhood, last summer. Every fucking kid I see strolling around at night is a potential criminal in my eyes, and worthy of following.

Shake 'em down I say.

Even if I was initially on the side of the Martin camp, I would now be swayed by the ignorant and presumptuous call to action from the leaders of the movement, Sharpton and Jackson. Calling for civil discourse if Zimmerman isn't arrested, how un-American is that shit?

Black people need to get their shit straight and focus on the problems within their community. They need to address why their youth emulates criminals and gang-bangers even if they are advantaged.

I can't wait until the first Reginald Denny makes his appearance. How long is it until these savages attack an innocent person out of retaliation?

[Jack]

Whats the alternative? We just assume everybody is the same threat, in all situations, at the expense of extra risk to ourselves and our family, because some groups are getting angrier and angrier?

When I consider the likes of Timothy McVeigh, "Ted" Kaczynski, various militia groups and white supremacists, I wonder if we ought to consider angry white men as potential threats as well. Anti-government sentiment is growing and whites who consider themselves disenfranchised and marginalized are becoming angrier and are emphasizing their right to bear arms. I don't think we can ignore the threat of angry white men with guns.

[ruksak]

Let's begin by saying that the "smashing of the head into the pavement" is a fact that is in dispute. But lets assume it happened. Zimmerman isn't one of those "weaker women" you see everywhere around you. It would seem he is one of those aggressive men you see everywhere. He was charged with assaulting a police officer at one point. It has been alleged he was fired from a previous security job after he literally threw a "weak woman" out of a party, causing her to injure an ankle. According to the source of this information, he was viewed as hot tempered and overly aggressive. Another fact that is in dispute, but that is one I suspect can be flushed out in a court of law. Seems to me, chances are pretty good, if Martin was bashing his head on the ground, it was because the hot tempered and overly aggressive Zimmerman himself turned what should have been a relatively annoying but not violent situation into a tragic and very violent one.

The account we're being given is that Zimmerman was struck first, from behind, followed by a volley of throws leading up to the gunshot.

Why aren't any people in the Martin camp even entertaining that the little black kid may have instigated the violent part of this violent struggle? They write it off, they wish not to discuss it because it soils their resolve to proclaim injustice. All these racist assholes can see is black....black black blackity black kid, that clouds their vision and makes their disdain and protestations extremely biased and worthy of dismissal.

[ruksak]

When I consider the likes of Timothy McVeigh, "Ted" Kaczynski, various militia groups and white supremacists, I wonder if we ought to consider angry white men as potential threats as well. Anti-government sentiment is growing and whites who consider themselves disenfranchised and marginalized are becoming angrier and are emphasizing their right to bear arms. I don't think we can ignore the threat of angry white men with guns.

Pointing out other groups shortcomings doesn't address the issues in the black community. Yes, we got us some fucked up white folk in the States.....but we're not talking about them here, they have nothing to do with this. Discuss the parties at hand with this topic and stop distracting with talk of irrelevant hate groups that have NOTHING to do with this case.

[Darklordabc]

It would seem he is one of those aggressive men you see everywhere. He was charged with assaulting a police officer at one point. It has been alleged he was fired from a previous security job after he literally threw a "weak woman" out of a party, causing her to injure an ankle. According to the source of this information, he was viewed as hot tempered and overly aggressive. Another fact that is in dispute, but that is one I suspect can be flushed out in a court of law.

If we are going to assainate characters, then by all records Martin sounds like your typical black ignorant punk, I base that on his suspension, his grills, his twitter account and every other fact I've heard about him.

Seems to me, chances are pretty good, if Martin was bashing his head on the ground, it was because the hot tempered and overly aggressive Zimmerman himself turned what should have been a relatively annoying but not violent situation into a tragic and very violent one

Seems just as likely to me, that Martin was a punk, black, scumbag teenager,who's role models was thugs and gangsters, like so many in the black community, and probably viciously attacked zimmerman because he was 'dissing' him and he figured it was the apprioriate response. It wold'nt exactly be an original story, would it? In the end, I dont think our character assessments are all that important in the end, especially since neither of us know the people involved, what matters is the totality of the evidence which leans towards the conclusion that Martin was the violent aggresor in the conflict and zimmerman was guilt only of following somebody.

[Darklordabc]

When I consider the likes of Timothy McVeigh, "Ted" Kaczynski, various militia groups and white supremacists, I wonder if we ought to consider angry white men as potential threats as well.

Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

White people will have to do a whole lot more murdering if they want to catch up to black's rates.

[lsbskins1]

The account we're being given is that Zimmerman was struck first, from behind, followed by a volley of throws leading up to the gunshot.

Why aren't any people in the Martin camp even entertaining that the little black kid may have instigated the violent part of this violent struggle? They write it off, they wish not to discuss it because it soils their resolve to proclaim injustice. All these racist assholes can see is black....black black blackity black kid, that clouds their vision and makes their disdain and protestations extremely biased and worthy of dismissal.

Yes, that is the account that Zimmerman, the man with the actual record of violent outbursts, is giving of the situation. But, because he shot the other guy who was there, we pretty much have to look to their individual history of violence to make a reasoned determination of what was the most likely scenario. Ummm, who was most likely to have escalated the situation, the guy with the history of needlessly escalating situations and a gun or the pot smoking kid with the Skittles? I wonder...

[lsbskins1]

If we are going to assainate characters, then by all records Martin sounds like your typical black ignorant punk, I base that on his suspension, his grills, his twitter account and every other fact I've heard about him.

Seems just as likely to me, that Martin was a punk, black, scumbag teenager,who's role models was thugs and gangsters, like so many in the black community, and probably viciously attacked zimmerman because he was 'dissing' him and he figured it was the apprioriate response. It wold'nt exactly be an original story, would it? In the end, I dont think our character assessments are all that important in the end, especially since neither of us know the people involved, what matters is the totality of the evidence which leans towards the conclusion that Martin was the violent aggresor in the conflict and zimmerman was guilt only of following somebody.

Except that wasn't the dead Martin's Twitter account, it is the Twitter account of another guy with the same name who lives in Kentucky. And not personally knowing either of those involved is what makes it possible to be objective. Do we divide juries up between friends and family of the accused and the victim or do we insist that jurors be individuals NOT connected to the parties in the case? I'll answer for you. It is the latter.

If you compare the actual histories of the actual people involved, Zimmerman is the one who comes up with the shit end of the stick. He was actually charged with assaulting a police office and that wasn't actually Martin's Twitter account, it belonged to someone else. Martin actually had a restraining order placed on him after his girlfriend claimed he behaved violently toward her. Martin has no corresponding legal record of violence. So, absent a documented history of accusations of violence against him and absent any evidence that the Martin who died had a "thugish" twitter account, what makes it reasoned to think Martin was the aggressor in the situation? Oh, I know...nothing. But viewing him as a black with a genetic predisposition to violent behavior, though not reasoned, makes it work for you.

Why don't you just go balls out and argue that the Hispanic Zimmerman was responding to his hard wired, genetic predisposition to be emotionally dysregulated? That stereotype is out there, too.

[ruksak]

Yes, that is the account that Zimmerman, the man with the actual record of violent outbursts, is giving of the situation. But, because he shot the other guy who was there, we pretty much have to look to their individual history of violence to make a reasoned determination of what was the most likely scenario. Ummm, who was most likely to have escalated the situation, the guy with the history of needlessly escalating situations and a gun or the pot smoking kid with the Skittles? I wonder...

He doesn't have a record of violent outbursts. Dramatic much?

I find it ironic that many people in this thread have talked shit about cops in the past and how they hate them, yet they want to bring up a bunk (dropped) charge of assaulting a cop during a domestic situation.

I don't think anyone is pretending that Zimmerman is the one perfect human being on the planet. Martin's possession of candy does nothing to take away from his bad attitude.

I've asked this question twice, I'll ask it again this time I'll give the answer because all of y'all are afraid to.

Would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman if he knew Zim had a gun?

Answer; No.

Why not?

Answer; because he would not have wanted to get shot.

The lesson; Don't attack strangers when you have no idea if they are armed or not. You might get killed. Teach that to your kids, black folk.

They are on CNN right now calling for Zimmerman to be given "due process" after realizing the un-American verbiage they used before. If said due-process ends in exhoneration then more black violence is forth-coming.

These fucking dirtbags (NAACP, Jackson, Sharpton) don't care who is in the wrong, all they see is color and they want their side to win.

I feel so bad for George Zimmerman and every man that from here on out will hesitate to defend themselves against violent maiming attacks with unequivocal force.

[lsbskins1]

He doesn't have a record of violent outbursts. Dramatic much?

I find it ironic that many people in this thread have talked shit about cops in the past and how they hate them, yet they want to bring up a bunk (dropped) charge of assaulting a cop during a domestic situation.

I don't think anyone is pretending that Zimmerman is the one perfect human being on the planet. Martin's possession of candy does nothing to take away from his bad attitude.

I've asked this question twice, I'll ask it again this time I'll give the answer because all of y'all are afraid to.

Would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman if he knew Zim had a gun?

Answer; No.

Why not?

Answer; because he would not have wanted to get shot.

The lesson; Don't attack strangers when you have no idea if they are armed or not. You might get killed. Teach that to your kids, black folk.

They are on CNN right now calling for Zimmerman to be given "due process" after realizing the un-American verbiage they used before. If said due-process ends in exhoneration then more black violence is forth-coming.

These fucking dirtbags (NAACP, Jackson, Sharpton) don't care who is in the wrong, all they see is color and they want their side to win.

I feel so bad for George Zimmerman and every man that from here on out will hesitate to defend themselves against violent maiming attacks with unequivocal force.

We keep arrest records for this very purpose, you know. Document, document, document, so there is a record of who did what, when. Sorry that the documentation that exists tends to not make Zimmerman look like the passive human he would love everyone to view him as being. I'm also sorry that we don't live in a "might makes right" world where being the one in possession of the gun makes you the one who deserves to be obeyed. I suggest that it is better to live in a world where what is right is what moves the masses, not who might kill you because they are armed.