Gay Wedding Due Soon On The Simpsons

[Dan_77]

Since I am confident in my sexuality and I am not a religeous person, where does this leave you?

I can tell you where it leaves me: Confused. If not for the religious writings in the Bible and other texts, exactly upon what set of "morals" do you base your supposition that homosexuality is morally wrong?

I look at the entire issue this way: Consenting adults (as in not dogs or kids or whatever other preposterous "slippery slope" arguments these zealots always throw out) should be able to do whatever absurd behavior they wish, so long as it does not directly harm another without their consent.

Show me why my belief is wrong without referring to any religous dogma or ideology, and I will believe that someone with the handle Seeker_of_Sins is not religious.

Personally, I am religous to some extent. I belong to a Methodist church. Surprising? Not at all. I try to live by a particular verse that I think sums up quite nicely what Christianity (or any peaceful religion) should really be about, not to mention secular morals.

John 13:34-5 (Jesus speaking) “A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Religious or not, the world would be an incredible place if everyone followed this message.

[RickSp]

John 13:34-5 (Jesus speaking) “A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Religious or not, the world would be an incredible place if everyone followed this message.

Amen brother. And a glory hallelujah for good measure.

[Seeker_Of_Sins]

Tivodan, you ask why consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it harms noone else, rick says the same thing, that consenting adults should be allowed to whatever they want in the privavcy of their own home. Fair enough, to a point i agree. However it isn't in their own home and it isn't consented to by me when I have to see it on TV, listen to it on the radio or hear about it from my children after being taught it at school. It isn't in the home between two consenting adults anymore, it's everywhere and it is promoted without consent or consultation. It's a continuation of the moral corruptness of society.Your focus on the homosexual issue makes no sense. I am not tackling homosexuality as a single issue, I am tackling it is a systematic continuation of moral corruptness.

Rick, once again you fail to disappoint. Now your bigotry even extends to your own children who are denied the right of free thought and free expression. You state that you are happy that your kids don't play with mine. Nice job, not only have you excluded your kids from participating in their own society but you have also stated an intention to impart your bigotry and irrational hatred onto my kids as well. You are everything I will spend my life rallying against. Your own personal interests overwhelm your ability to see beyond your own belief system to the point that your children are forbidden from interacting with other children who's parents you disagree with. Thats a fine sense of community you have there. Well done. Whats next, complete disowning of your own children because they did associate with mine? How about some sort of boarding school where only your particular dogma is expressed followed by arranged marriage to like minded children from your select community of ignorant, close minded individuals.You state community and values are important to your family and yet everything said before that revelation reveals the lie.

[RickSp]

Rick, once again you fail to disappoint. Now your bigotry even extends to your own children who are denied the right of free thought and free expression. You state that you are happy that your kids don't play with mine. Nice job, not only have you excluded your kids from participating in their own society but you have also stated an intention to impart your bigotry and irrational hatred onto my kids as well. You are everything I will spend my life rallying against. Your own personal interests overwhelm your ability to see beyond your own belief system to the point that your children are forbidden from interacting with other children who's parents you disagree with. Thats a fine sense of community you have there. Well done. Whats next, complete disowning of your own children because they did associate with mine? How about some sort of boarding school where only your particular dogma is expressed followed by arranged marriage to like minded children from your select community of ignorant, close minded individuals.You state community and values are important to your family and yet everything said before that revelation reveals the lie.

What odious crap. You have suggested that tolerance is a "drug induced obsession" somehow on par with beastiality and necrophilia and you have the unmittigated gall to call me a bigot. Disgusting doesn't begin to describe it.

You know zero about the community I live in, yet claim that I don't value community or family. (You seem to know zero about a wide range of topics, come to think of it.) Your comments regarding my children are beneath contempt. (My kids could teach you a lot about free expression and intelligent discourse, should they have the misfortune of crossing your path.) If I had a modicum of respect for you, I might be insulted. As it is I am merely amazed as you claim piety and spew bigotry. You defame the religion that you have the timerity to claim to represent.

[Seeker_Of_Sins]

Now you are getting it rick, personal attacks made from your inability to read or comprehend. This conversation ends now before we are both banned. cya, hopefully not in person. Just to reiterate for the umpteenth time, I have no religious beliefs. I can only assume that your failure to understand this comes from your need to label people and place them in brackets or categories. I doupt very much that your kids or you could teach me anything, whether it be baking a cake or walking in a straight line.

[RickSp]

If I am not mistaken your previous posts were rife with person invective. Should I have responded in kind? Should I have responded at all, may be the more pertinant question.

But enough, I've wasted enough time with one who, by your own posts, equates tolerance with drugs and bestiality and sees the collapse of a civilization in a satirical cartoon show. That says it all. Tolerance is one of my family values. Sorry about yours.

[Dan_77]

seeker, did you not read my post? I questioned upon what morals you base your supposition that homosexuality represents a decline in them. you say you are not religious, yet i know of no secular beliefs that say homosexuality is a sin.

However it isn't in their own home and it isn't consented to by me when I have to see it on TV, listen to it on the radio or hear about it from my children after being taught it at school. It isn't in the home between two consenting adults anymore, it's everywhere and it is promoted without consent or consultation.

Oh, I apologize. I didn't realize that you are strapped, Alex de Large style, into a chair with your eyes propped open being forced to watch TV and listen to the radio.

You still fail to explain how any of this is HURTING you or someone you care about. HURT does not include seeing a gay couple kissing and feeling the same awkwardness you feel, for example, when around someone with obvious cerebal palsy. Read some legal cases and law books on the definition of INJURY and then get back to me.

As far as the schools, none of them are "teaching" homosexuality anymore then they are teaching heterosexuality. What they are teaching, at least in my area, is safe sex no matter what kind it is, which is merely being pragmatic regarding the issue of teens and sex. Other then that, they are also teaching children to be respectful of other people's personal choices and situations, which is certainly a good lesson, unless your religion...err sorry, you're not religious.... secular morals preach... oops there i go again.... teach otherwise.

[Seeker_Of_Sins]

Well Tivodan, since you obviously keep your children in a locked room and monitor everything they do/hear/say, I guess that exposure to media isn't a problem for you. I disagree that it isn't hurting anyone, normalisation of the abnormal hurts many people. They are teaching homosexuality in schools, perhaps you should look into. It even includes role playing where children of the same sex are paired up and asked to roleplay a relationship based on same sex, what household chores which each do, that sort of thing. If it were purely safe sex, the issue wouldn't be off such concern. Without going into the problems of teaching children subjects without parental consent or participation, safe sex in itself is a worthwhile endeavour. Teaching same sex is another matter entirely.

You state that seeing a homosexual act doesn't constitute hurt or injury and that I should read some legal cases. Perhaps you need to take your own advice, look at woman feeling,(I stress the word feeling), held back by employers and winning damages, look at cultural facial tatoos becoming a non relevant reason for hiring front counter staff, look at cases relating to sexual harrasment through verbal means only, look at sexual harrassment cases that relate to a soft porn image. I think you will find that todays woorld is all ablout feeling and perception rather than reality and actuality.

I think you have a need to label and categorise people the same as Rick. Unfortunately, since you are unable to think of labels for yourself, you are relying on other peoples labels to do the work for you. Not a good startegy.

[RickSp]

Remarkable how much the discussion over gay rights in general and gay marriage in particular echoes the whole debate over "race mixing". Until 1967, interracial marriage was illegal in at least 16 states. The arguments against interracial marriage split along the same lines as we have seen here. The traditionalists talked about the breakdown of moral values and the bigots merely ranted. Instead of opposing blacks and white marrying, now it is an opposition to folks of the same gender marrying. Not much has changed. The same intolerance and bigotry are still with us.

[SVMc]

I can't believe I missed that episode after this entire debate. Did anyone see it?

Quoted By: RickSp Remarkable how much the discussion over gay rights in general and gay marriage in particular echoes the whole debate over "race mixing". Until 1967, interracial marriage was illegal in at least 16 states. The arguments against interracial marriage split along the same lines as we have seen here. The traditionalists talked about the breakdown of moral values and the bigots merely ranted. Instead of opposing blacks and white marrying, now it is an opposition to folks of the same gender marrying. Not much has changed. The same intolerance and bigotry are still with us.

EXACTLY!!

Quoted By: Seeker Of Sins
What I originally said was that a gay marriage on the Simpsons was a continuation of the normalisation of the gay lifestyle and that it was a symbol of moral corruptness in society.

Quoted By: Seeker Of Sins
Once again with the fundementalist line. Read my previous post before labelling.

Quoted By: Tivodan1116
If not for the religious writings in the Bible and other texts, exactly upon what set of "morals" do you base your supposition that homosexuality is morally wrong?

The dilemma is not labelling YOU as a person but addressing a belief system and those who uphold a belief system that says homosexuality is "moral corruptness". Those who have been most vocal in upholding that belief are religious fundamentalists. And, I for one, have not met any person(s) who agrue that homosexuality is morally corrupt who are not using religious morals as a basis.

No one here is arguing the beasitlity, pedophilia, drug trafficking or violent crime should occur. Yet, SOS, every time we mention that homosexuality is NOT morally corrupt you counter that we are enabling a horrible world filled with social ills.

The differnece is that you see a connection between homosexuality and social degeneration where we see none. You are implying that people who tolerate homosexuality are also tolerant of crimes that result in real harm to society.

Quoted By: Seeker of Sins You state that seeing a homosexual act doesn't constitute hurt or injury and that I should read some legal cases. Perhaps you need to take your own advice, look at woman feeling,(I stress the word feeling), held back by employers and winning damages, look at cultural facial tatoos becoming a non relevant reason for hiring front counter staff, look at cases relating to sexual harrasment through verbal means only, look at sexual harrassment cases that relate to a soft porn image. I think you will find that todays woorld is all ablout feeling and perception rather than reality and actuality.

This makes no sense you are obviously not understanding the meaning of harm, or the examples you, yourself provided.

Homosexual marriage and the normalization of homosexuality will not impair you ability to do you job. The case of women winning damages against employers for sexual harrassment in the work place is linked not to women "feeling" indimidated by the presence of men, but by particular men in workplaces making women unwelcome and harrassing them verbally. Hurling sexual slurs at women, posting up pornography etc... is hurtful and will win a woman a sexual harrassment suit. Likewise if you decide to work in a predominantly homosexual work environment and memebers of the work association hurl sexual slurs at you and post homosexual pornography you would have a case. However, the existance of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality does not cause you, or I, or anyone any harm. In fact normalizing homosexuality to the point where it is socially acceptable simply ensures that homosexuals will not be barred from employment for their sexual orientation. That is tolerance.

The fact is no one on this thread has been able to name one reason why homosexuality is damaging to society.

A NOTE OF CAUTION:

Beasility is different from homosexuality
Pedophilia is different from homosexuality
Welfare rates are different from homosexuality
Drug crime is different from homosexuality
Spousal abuse is different from homosexuality.

Simply putting any of the above (or any other social ills your mind may conjure) into the same sentence as homosexuaity does not make homosexuality morally corrupt, or wrong.

[RickSp]

I can't believe I missed that episode after this entire debate. Did anyone see it?

My heard my twelve year old howling with laughter and caught the last minute or two. Guess that means he and I are both going to hell. Or not.

Lord save us from the humorless.