Gay Wedding Due Soon On The Simpsons

[Evil Baby]

edit: sorry about this post. I wasn't awear there was more than 1 page and what I had replied to was already touched on.

P.S.
I blame the vodka.

[Seeker_Of_Sins]

1. Number of homosexuals in Australia
Nationwide figure - 1.2% of adults identify as homosexual or lesbian.
* 1.6% of adult men identified as homosexual and 0.8% of women as lesbian.
* 1.4% of women and 0.9% of men said they were bisexual.
Source: The 2003 'Sex in Australia' survey of 20,000 people, with a special weighting to Sydney's homosexual centre. Conducted by the Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health & Society (ARCSHS) at La Trobe University. Published in Australian & NZ Journal of Public Health, Vol 27 No 2 2003 ISSN 1326 0200.

CANADA – (as comparison)
1.3% of men and 0.7% of women considered themselves homosexual.
0.9% of women, compared with 0.6% of men, said they were bisexual.
Source: Canadian Community Health Survey, June 2004. A Canadian government survey of 83,000 people. Ref: Statistics Canada. Click here.

2. Number of homosexual “couples
Same sex couples make up 0.46 % of all couples in Australia.
(19,594 couples, 2001 census)
The 2001 census showed that over 8 million men and women were living as partners in couple relationships and that 12% of these were ‘de facto married’.
Ten years prior the 1991 census indicated that around 7.2 million men and women were living as partners in couple relationships and that 8% of these were de facto married.
Same sex couples make up 0.46 % of all couples (2001).
Source: 3310.0 Marriages and Divorces, Australia, Nov 2003, Australian Bureau of Statistics. Click here.

Sweden and Norway
Statistics for Sweden show only 0.55% of couples are same-sex and in Norway 0.68%.

UK
In the UK, the latest census shows 10.3 million married couples, 2 million heterosexual de facto couples and 39,261 same-sex couples. This gives 0.318% of all couples are homosexual couples. [The Times, 4 Feb 2004]

3. Homosexual marriage and ‘civil union’ relationships
In The Netherlands, where same sex couples are allowed to ‘marry’, a recent study published in AIDS magazine, found that the average length of a relationship between two men is 1.5 years. In addition the study found that they have eight other ‘partners’ each year.
Source: Lifesite. Click here.

The Netherlands
Official statistics from The Netherlands government show that few homosexuals actually get married. “Another important change in formal union behaviour in The Netherlands is the fact that homosexuals may not get married. This has been legal since 2001. … The number of homosexual marriage is still small; in 2002 just under 1,000 marriages between two men and fewer still between two women were registered.”
‘Economic circumstances and union dissolution in the 1990s in The Netherlands’,
Dr D Manting and Dr D Loeve, Statistics Netherlands.Click here.

Scandinavia
In 'homosexual-friendly’ Scandinavian countries, where same-sex ‘civil union’ type relationships have existed for 10 years, male-male union breakdown (‘divorce’) is 50% higher than heterosexual unions. For female-female coupling the breakdown figure is 170% higher.
Source: Deathblow to Marriage, Kurtz, National Review.
Click here.

Homosexual relationships in Australia
These figures are taken from studies done by the National Centre in HIV Social Research at The University of New South Wales.
From the Melbourne Gay Community Periodic Survey (MCGPS)
Regular Partners
MGCPS (Feb. 2000) interviewed homosexual men at Melbourne’s midsumma carnival and homosexual venues and found that:
27.6% of homosexual men say they have ‘only regular’ partners,
35.1% have regular PLUS casual and 24.4 % have only casual sex.
70.3% said they had sexual contact with casual partners in previous 6 months

Number of Sex Partners
(MGCPS Feb. 2000) When questioned about the number of sex partners in the previous six months:
One - 20.7 %, 2 to 10 - 39 %, 11 to 50 - 26.2 %, Over 50 - 7.8 %
Thus 73 % have had more than one partner in the previous six months.

Length of Relationships
Changed in previous six months - 40.4 %, 6 mths to 1year 9.8 %, 1 to 2 yrs - 18.8 %,
3 to 5 years - 15.3%, over 5 years - 15.7 %

Therefore 50% lasted less than one year and 68% lasted less than 2 years.
(Includes data from ‘Men and Sexual Health’, by the National Centre in HIV Social Research, 1997)


Author: Jenny Stokes | Modified: 24 November 2004


Maybe my quoted 7% was a bit high, strangeley enough I got that figure from a gay rights website. I guess bias is strong across all sites looking to promote their ideals.

[SVMc]

SOS well SVMc, for someone who claims to research issues for a living, you seem to have failed to grasp one vitally important point. That point is assumption.

SOS First you attacked me as a closet gay, now you attack me as a religeous zealot.

Looks like I hit a nerve, I've been pretty careful not to specifically attack you as an individual as a homophobe. However, I have also pointed out some of the most common reasons that people are opposed to open homosexuality.

The opinion that:

SOS A gay marriage on the Simpsons was a continuation of the normalisation of the gay lifestyle and that it was a symbol of moral corruptness in society.

is definately opposed to open homosexuality. The only rationale I can find in your argument for the opposition to homosexuality is that:

SOS the morality of society to continue on a downward spiral?

In otherwords you somehow find that two consenting adults who love each other displaying that love (if not heterosexual) constitutes a decline in moral values.

Yet you seem offended that I find intolerance in you while you preceive me to be:

SOS bagging my moral values as unacceptable in todays society and listing a range of studies to try and prove your point.

The difference is that you are arguing to withold rights from a group of people that are causing no harm to society. While I am arguing that as citizens they should have the same rights as ever other citizen. The government, nor anyone else has any right to dictate whom among consenting adults should be able to love each other.

As for your attempst to argue that this will lead to beastility, necrophilia and pedophilia there is no indication that this is the case, and those are just fear-mongering techniques. The obvious difference between homosexuality and any of those fear-factors of beastility, necrophilia and pedophilia is that homosexuality involves two consenting adults, while none of the other instances do. Homosexuality harms no one. The acts above do.

As for your long list of marriage statistics, exactly what is your point? Homosexual relationships will break up? Without a doubt, so do heterosexual relationships... that doesn't mean we have banned them. I see no compelling reason why homosexuals should not have the same rights to form relationships and break up out of those relationships just like any heterosexual couple.

And as to the NZ case. Unfortunate acts happen as people create social revolution. Many people were harmed during the civil rights struggles. That does not mean that the civil rights movement was a bad thing. The people that committed the attacks should be dealt with by the law, in accordance with the law. If that was not the case you have a problem with the law, not with the movement.

What it comes down to is that the moral sensitivities of a portion of the population should not be able to control the rights of another segment of the population, providing no one is being harmed and the activity involves consenting adults.

[bishop]

Cuz you CAN? You really don't need any other reason.

amen bruva!


as for the simpsons.. i've always had a problem with the in your face gay agenda, and i've had several gay friends. quite frankly, i like the fact that they are airing this on the simpsons primarily because it will light a fire in uptight "conservative" assholes all across the nation. i'd even tolerate more instigation just to get them even more dizzy and riled.

[RickSp]

Bravo for the Simpsons.

The show is irreverant and very funny. If the uptight and bigoted have a problem with that, that is their problem. SOS's absurd contention that homosexuals are out recruiting or that tolerance of others is leading to moral collapse is hardly worth responding to.

So far we have the fundamentalists claiming that the muppets, Bert and Ernie, are gay, that Sponge Bob Square Pants and Buster the Rabbit promote homosexuality, and for that matter that Mother Goose in a Barney episode invoked satanism. (Cartoons and puppets are all evil!) Ridiculous.

Gay folks have been around for as long as humans have existed on earth. They are a tiny minority and deserving of the same rights as anyone else. I can only speak for myself, but tolerance is one of my family's traditional values

[bishop]

So far we have the fundamentalists claiming that the muppets, Bert and Ernie, are gay, that Sponge Bob Square Pants and Buster the Rabbit promote homosexuality, and for that matter that Mother Goose in a Barney episode invoked satanism. (Cartoons and puppets are all evil!) Ridiculous.

can't forget harry potter and all the other books they've tried to ban. (god forbid a child read something other than the koran.. errr.. i mean bible - mixing up my different mullahs.)

[RickSp]

can't forget harry potter and all the other books they've tried to ban. (god forbid a child read something other than the koran.. errr.. i mean bible - mixing up my different mullahs.)

Yes. Any book that stimulates a child's imagination must be evil!

[fushigi]

Do you think I should be able to have sex with a dog as long as I do it in the privacy of my own home? What about my urge to have sex with the dead? I mean who does it actually harm? What if the dead person is my wife? Is that more acceptable? How about my uncontrollable desire to have sex with my children? How much depravity will you allow before we reach your level of intolerance? How will you defend your intolerance when that level is reached?

I love how some people against gay marriage always go to the Rick Santorum "man-on-dog action" slippery slope, as if accepting the fact that sometimes two people of the same gender like to get it on will ineluctably lead to a society where bestial necrophelia is practiced openly on the streets.

But I digress. Seeker, I have to say I just watched "Angels in America," and if that's at all an accurate depiction of gay life in NY during the '80s, then you're right, it was a depraved life to live. "Prick up your Ears" is another fine - and disgusting - example, of gay life in London during the '60s.

But on the other hand, is gay (especially male gay) life depraved because they want it to be or because of the discrimination they face? I mean, do you think gay men in Texas would really prefer humping in rest stops to wining and dining, kisses at the movies, and an erotic night at home?

Anyway, the discrimination is so inbred in American society that it'd be difficult to answer that question. Although I suppose you could contrast your average gay love life in a city that accepts homosexuality versus that of, say, Moscow, Idaho.

[RickSp]

It says very disturburbing things about the fundamentalist point of view that to suggest that showing a degree of tolerance to one's fellow human beings is somehow the equivalent, from their warped perspective, to beastiality and necrophilia. They either seem to lack all sense of understanding and compassion or, in the alternative, they sincerely want to have sex with their pets.

[Seeker_Of_Sins]

It says very disturburbing things about the fundamentalist point of view that to suggest that showing a degree of tolerance to one's fellow human beings is somehow the equivalent, from their warped perspective, to beastiality and necrophilia. They either seem to lack all sense of understanding and compassion or, in the alternative, they sincerely want to have sex with their pets.

Once again with the fundementalist line. Read my previous post before labelling.

My point was simply that society is now accepting of moral corruptness and that this is a symptom of the continuing moral decline in society as a whole. The original question was about a 'gay outing'on the Simpsons after all and we are not talking about a pleasant family picnic either.

Society has changed to such an extent that we now celebrate all that is bad and shocking in the world. Criminals are paraded as heroes and those who defend criminals and their rights hold sway over the victims. A good example is the media circus that revolves around the Michael Jackson case. No-one cares about the charge, they are simply interested in the personality charged, The meer fact that he allegedly abused children sexually seems to have raised almost no comment.

School children now hold no respect for their elders, other peoples property or even their teachers. No punishment is bought against these child criminals, indeed their actions are sanctioned by the state and by human rights activists. Soon a parent will not even be able to raise their child the best way they see fit. This new disrespect for everything has manifested itself in poor grades, declining literacy and an almost biblical obsession with violence and sex. An excellent example of this was Bumfights, over 16 million copies in existence today worldwide. The fact it was made at all is significant, the fact that that many people across the globe paid money to see it is of true concern.

Then we have the world owes me a living set. They want to do nothing and be paid well for it. If anyone attempts to point out the flaw in this logic they are harrased until they desist. They were bought up in a system of no blame and no responsibility and they expect that to continue into their adult lives. This started with everyone is a winner just for competing in schools and now manifests itself in a dedication to mediocrity the likes of which has never been seen before.

We now have the new age blame it on the genes philosphy permeating our society. Noone is to blame for anything because you cannot help what you do. The only people that are really to blame are those that do not accept that you have some genetic illness that pre-disposes you to a life of crime/alchoholism/paedophilia..insert appropriate PC disease here. This reinforces the world owes me a living set and arms them with another excuse to embrace their mediocrity.

A continuation of this is societies new willingness to incarcerate criminals in home detention. We now have the ridiciulous situation where paedophiles are left to their own devices in their own homes, with a computer provided to satisfy their immediate sexual perversions, and a small electrnic ankle bracelet to detain them. This goes for all types of crimes, go home, rest, be paid, thats your reward for crime. Not enough, lets throw in a free computer and internet connection and a free whore weekly. Still not enough? What else would you like?

Our music is now full of violence and swearing and demeaning language towards woman and children. We sell this filth in shops and hear it on the radio and noone says anything. In fact we hold these so called gangster rapsters up on pedestals and tell our young to aspire to this level of achievment. We tell out daughters that a man who treats them like a punching bag who occassionaly roots them is all they can hope for. We allow them to amass great fortunes whilst selling drugs and promoting weapons on our streets. We allow them to teach that everything can be resolved by murder or a beating and we say nothing. This is the message our children hear.

The final straw, at least for me, is the label of intolerance from the likes of you Rick. The meer fact that I should speak out about these social excesses and state that allowing gay normalisation in society,(which is nothing more than an individual sexual desire, a perversion if you like), is another example of the moral corruptness in society. This small warning is immediately focused upon by those who have willingly allowed society to become a place where the elderly are reviled and the criminally insane or sexually perverted are reverred. They then endeavour to belittle and silence rather than looking inwards into their own depravity. Better that everyone is in agreement with corruptness and moral decline because this is the easier road to follow.

You say I don't understand or fail to empathise. I understand perfectly, my children are inheriting a world where they will not be welcomed unless they become depraved individuals who encompass crime and corruption. That is our generations legacy and my children have to live with it. They have to deal with our drug induced obsession with tolerance, empathy and minority rights.

My point about further social depravity was simply a question of when will it be enough? Why allow one thing and not another. Our generation opened this door and now we have forgotten how to close it. All manner of people are streaming out that door demanding this and that for themselves from society in the name of tolerance and empathy and rights and ...............

I say enough. We have gone too far, too fast. It is time to take a breath, take a look around and make some decisions based on reality rather than imagined ills.

Berate me for I know thats all I can expect. Call me a bigot/racist/sexist, whatever turns you on. For me, all I have left is the opportunity to save my children by leaving them open to the possibility that your way is not the only way. They should be concerned and thay should be worried but thay can make a difference. they can say no, lead by example and change their own futures. There was a time when community and values were important in society. Maybe in time we will once again greet our neighbours rather than swearing at their rubbish bin and loud rap music.

[fushigi]

Seeker, I do empathize, believe me. So many things are just unbelievable today. Jerry Springer - entertainment? Do we actually derive gratification from watching these miserable, impoverished deadbeats whoop each others' asses? It's god-awful sad is what it is.

And we do need voices of restraint to check society when it starts to go too far. A little bit of that during the Reign of Terror, for example, or Nazi Germany circa 1935 might have been nice. We need it.

But don't be so glum about the future. In some areas, what is being accepted seems quite radical and even outlandish, but in others we're doing much better. After all, compare the world today to that of 1800. We've developed compassion not only for the weakest among us but in other parts of the world. International organizations innoculating children against common diseases that would kill them - measles for example - in countries like Afghanistan and Uganda. We have witnessed and actively condemned slavery, fasicm, communism, genocide, violations against human rights, and even taken an active stance against poverty. I'd say the world is becoming more tolerant, but we haven't forgotten about charity, compassion, and respect for life.

We do need voices of reason in extreme cases (the Michael Jackson circus appalls me too). But in other cases, we need to step back and consider - does the bad really outweigh the good? I'd rather have a world where gay couples are accepted and apartheid is dead than the other way around.

[RickSp]

Once again with the fundementalist line. Read my previous post before labelling.

Fundamentalist was the most polite term I could think of for a viewpoint that seems to equate tolerance with beastialty.

My point was simply that society is now accepting of moral corruptness and that this is a symptom of the continuing moral decline in society as a whole. The original question was about a 'gay outing'on the Simpsons after all and we are not talking about a pleasant family picnic either.

Get a grip. If you paid the slightest attention you might be aware that the Simpsons is satirical. If taken literally, one might claim that the cartoon glorifies laziness, sloth, and stupidity. I would rather not comment on those who do not understand the meaning of the word "satire."

The final straw, at least for me, is the label of intolerance from the likes of you Rick. The meer fact that I should speak out about these social excesses and state that allowing gay normalisation in society,(which is nothing more than an individual sexual desire, a perversion if you like), is another example of the moral corruptness in society. This small warning is immediately focused upon by those who have willingly allowed society to become a place where the elderly are reviled and the criminally insane or sexually perverted are reverred. They then endeavour to belittle and silence rather than looking inwards into their own depravity. Better that everyone is in agreement with corruptness and moral decline because this is the easier road to follow.

You say I don't understand or fail to empathise. I understand perfectly, my children are inheriting a world where they will not be welcomed unless they become depraved individuals who encompass crime and corruption. That is our generations legacy and my children have to live with it. They have to deal with our drug induced obsession with tolerance, empathy and minority rights.

So now I am the bigot because I believe in treating my neighbors with respect and tolerance. I am a bigot because I apply the "golden rule" in my dealings with others? Tolerance is one of my family values just as it is so obviously not one of yours.

For me, all I have left is the opportunity to save my children by leaving them open to the possibility that your way is not the only way. They should be concerned and thay should be worried but thay can make a difference. they can say no, lead by example and change their own futures. There was a time when community and values were important in society. Maybe in time we will once again greet our neighbours rather than swearing at their rubbish bin and loud rap music.

Seeker of Sins, I guess that says it all, doesn't it. Seek and ye shall find. Those that are different from you are "depraved, "corrupt", "perverted" or "criminal". I am just happy that your kids don't play with mine.

When I walk my kids to school in the morning we often greet our neighbors. They are mostly families like our own, but there is a mix of single and retired folks. Several neighbors are gay, one a retired minister . Best I can tell he isn't singlehandedly, or as part of some vast conspiracy, out to destroy the moral fiber of the nation, any more than our Islamic friends are out to destroy Christianity, nor our black neighbors intent on killing whitey.

Community and values are very important to me and to my kids. We clearly wouldn't fit into your vision of "community" nor your idea of "values". Our community is based on mutual respect and an openness to those who are different from ourselves. Our family values are not based on loathing or fear.