Encouraging ignorance in schools

[Peter]

I don't know I'd have to know if the books were factual and accurate or if they were just political banter to decide. The Native Americans were very brutal and cruel and subjected whites to a great deal of misery as well many times they were unprovoked when doing so. Including my tribe the Cherokee. It is not so simple as to say the whites came and killed all the Indians. That's not true. so I'd have to read the material to decide if the books should or should not be banned.

I'm with ironeagle on this one. I'd need to read the books and see how they were being used in the classroom. It's important that we know what our great great grandfathers did to each other but there's a line between teaching history and fomenting feelings of hatred and retribution. We need to know about the mistakes of the past so we can try and avoid them in the future but constantly dwelling on them does no good for anyone, least of all the party wronged.

[BlackSheep]

I'm with ironeagle on this one. I'd need to read the books and see how they were being used in the classroom. It's important that we know what our great great grandfathers did to each other but there's a line between teaching history and fomenting feelings of hatred and retribution. We need to know about the mistakes of the past so we can try and avoid them in the future but constantly dwelling on them does no good for anyone, least of all the party wronged.

Oh I agree if they are really teaching hatred or something, but based on my research that was not the case. I would love to see evidence.

[Trojan_Ripper]

It appears that science isn't the only school subject anathema to the right wing in America.


Banning Books in Tucson | Consortiumnews
Let's not expose children to any other point of view than that of the white right wing.

Add this to the call of several of the Republican presidential candidates to eliminate the federal Department of Education and leave decisions to the local school districts and anyone should be able to predict the educational level of schoolkids in a generation or two. No science, no history, no broader awareness or education about the world beyond that state's borders.

Is this the best way to prepare the next generation to live in a world of increasing international trade and foreign relations? Are xenophobia and ignorance what the right wing desire as standards of education in the future?

I don’t understand Jack? Are you saying that local school districts will ban science, history, and not offer any awareness and education beyond their borders? This being said all because the Federal Government might not be involved?

Who are these “white” right wing politicians from the entire STATE who want to shut down teaching Mexican-AMERICAN studies?

This bull-shit get’s old.... as people overlook the blatant racist’s comments that are made throughout this article; while they try to garner support from the BLIND to the very thing they are condemning?

I most likely would have agreed with the article about banning any books, but while reading the editorial and interview with Carlos Munoz, (as it went on), I finally decided that using any color in a derogatory way is racists. So being "white" and quarter Native American, I found the premise, and Munoz, highly racist and offensive. He only hurt their cause. I could care less now on checking out the books that were banned.

Right wing….left wing…preparing the next generation, phiffittt. The only thing I would want my child to read of Carlos Munoz, (the head crybaby here) would be a chalupa or carne asada recipe.

[BlackSheep]

This bull-shit get’s old.... as people overlook the blatant racist’s comments that are made throughout this article; while they try to garner support from the BLIND to the very thing they are condemning?

What blatant racist comment are made. Let be specific please.

I most likely would have agreed with the article about banning any books, but while reading the editorial and interview with Carlos Munoz, (as it went on), I finally decided that using any color in a derogatory way is racists. So being "white" and quarter Native American, I found the premise, and Munoz, highly racist and offensive. He only hurt their cause. I could care less now on checking out the books that were banned.

Again please be specific.

[Thanatos]

What blatant racist comment are made. Let be specific please.

Again please be specific.

Well, you know, I think in any process of education if you are a student and you don’t hear about people like yourself in the making of history in this nation you are bound to feel somewhat inferior, you know what I mean? I’ve gone through that when I was a kid. My God, it’s all white history, and all the heroes were white. And you never hear about the good things that were done by folks of color in our society, in the building of this nation.

Can't you see how we're being libeled? Bunch of crybabies shoulda toughed out all the things we ever did to them.

So I think what has been done in Arizona by these white politicians has been an effort to return to the days of the 1950s, previous to the Chicano movement and other civil rights movements in this country to try to “Americanize” and re-colonize the minds of young people in the state of Arizona.


He... he pointed out that the clowns in Arizona are white politicians! I think I'm supposed to feel insulted.

I don’t understand Jack? Are you saying that local school districts will ban science, history, and not offer any awareness and education beyond their borders? This being said all because the Federal Government might not be involved?

If that's what Jack meant then it was a smart thing to say. Some of the "special" states would happily turn their state educational systems into factories that churn out racists and self-hating minorities. That shouldn't be a bone of contention. I imagine that you'd look at that as more of a feature than a problem.

[Trojan_Ripper]

What blatant racist comment are made. Let be specific please.

Well Blacksheep it’s pretty clear, but here you go for starters…. Quote: It’s racism at the core, wouldn’t you say? So….They brought it up and are making it a racist issue, when in reality it’s because of their words…that they try and make it so. Read for yourself.

My God, it’s all white history, and all the heroes were white. And you never hear about the good things that were done by folks of color in our society, in the building of this nation.

My God, you know, all we hear about Mexicans, for example, they are criminals, you know, they are drunkards, you know, the women are whores, you know.

There comes all these racist, negative stereotypes that are promoted in the movies and television, newspapers.

So I think what has been done in Arizona by these white politicians has been an effort to return to the days of the 1950s, previous to the Chicano movement and other civil rights movements in this country to try to “Americanize” and re-colonize the minds of young people in the state of Arizona.

My God, man, we’ll not only have undocumented workers who are poor and are a cheap labor source, we’re going to have people now, who are getting into powerful positions in the future that are going to take away from what belongs to “us.”

It’s racism at the core, wouldn’t you say?

We actually had the both of you on the show not too long ago. Talk about what these white people might be afraid of that’s inside these beautiful books.

Talking about this is really absurd, you know, when in a sense even people like Shakespeare, an English, a white guy

Whether some white people like it or not we’re going to be the majority in this country.

Well, here in California whites are already the minority. Right?

Exactly, right. Hawaii, and here … so it’s happening. Now mind you, we don’t want to romanticize that fact because I always provide my critical analysis of it, the demographic revolution, in the context that unfortunately that is not necessarily going to be a consequence of profound change. And I site President Obama as an example, big deal we have a black president, but where are we? We are worse off than we were during the Bush presidency.

Now finally I want to get back to the revenge aspect of this action taken in Tucson and what it looks like, and what may need to happen in terms of a fight-back. We understand that white politicians took this action starting with the fact the Dolores Huerta was in Tucson, and talked about how white people hate brown people, and white politicians there hate brown people. And those politicians never forgot it, they are in positions of power now, and they are punishing the people.

Respond to that and what the fight-back, that you’d like to see, what it should look like?

And I think also we have to definitely make clear that is not all white politicians, there are some good folks out there who are allies but it’s a kind of white politician that we need to address this issue towards and that is the right-wing, Tea Party, white politician type of person who is out there doing the evil deeds that are taking place in Tucson, Arizona.

….who are these right wing, Tea party, white politician type doing these evil deeds? Name them.
Identify them.

I stand by my earlier post and won’t be swayed. This article and author are making this a racist and not a race issue. Do a little research and you’ll find…. 1 reason is because of an author of one of the books that got removed.

I’m posting the formal letter showing that John Huppenthal ADE director was doing his job.

http://saveethnicstudies.org/assets/...of_finding.pdf

Then I’m posting a response by the TUSD board to his decision.

http://www.tusd1.org/contents/govboa...nMAS011012.pdf

And then the pictures of the right wing, white politicians of the board who agreed with him.
Tucson Unified School District - Governing Board

If that's what Jack meant then it was a smart thing to say. Some of the "special" states would happily turn their state educational systems into factories that churn out racists and self-hating minorities. That shouldn't be a bone of contention. I imagine that you'd look at that as more of a feature than a problem.

What “special states” are those Thanatos? Gotta link?

Your “imagination” runs wild. Your crystal ball may be clear and colorless, but it’s not working very well when you try and claim to know peoples views. Try reading my earlier post again and then explain your “feature” and “problem” comment.

[BlackSheep]

Well Blacksheep it’s pretty clear, but here you go for starters…. Quote: It’s racism at the core, wouldn’t you say? So….They brought it up and are making it a racist issue, when in reality it’s because of their words…that they try and make it so. Read for yourself.

My God, it’s all white history, and all the heroes were white. And you never hear about the good things that were done by folks of color in our society, in the building of this nation.

My God, you know, all we hear about Mexicans, for example, they are criminals, you know, they are drunkards, you know, the women are whores, you know.

There comes all these racist, negative stereotypes that are promoted in the movies and television, newspapers.

So I think what has been done in Arizona by these white politicians has been an effort to return to the days of the 1950s, previous to the Chicano movement and other civil rights movements in this country to try to “Americanize” and re-colonize the minds of young people in the state of Arizona.

My God, man, we’ll not only have undocumented workers who are poor and are a cheap labor source, we’re going to have people now, who are getting into powerful positions in the future that are going to take away from what belongs to “us.”

It’s racism at the core, wouldn’t you say?

We actually had the both of you on the show not too long ago. Talk about what these white people might be afraid of that’s inside these beautiful books.

Talking about this is really absurd, you know, when in a sense even people like Shakespeare, an English, a white guy

Whether some white people like it or not we’re going to be the majority in this country.

Well, here in California whites are already the minority. Right?

Exactly, right. Hawaii, and here … so it’s happening. Now mind you, we don’t want to romanticize that fact because I always provide my critical analysis of it, the demographic revolution, in the context that unfortunately that is not necessarily going to be a consequence of profound change. And I site President Obama as an example, big deal we have a black president, but where are we? We are worse off than we were during the Bush presidency.

Now finally I want to get back to the revenge aspect of this action taken in Tucson and what it looks like, and what may need to happen in terms of a fight-back. We understand that white politicians took this action starting with the fact the Dolores Huerta was in Tucson, and talked about how white people hate brown people, and white politicians there hate brown people. And those politicians never forgot it, they are in positions of power now, and they are punishing the people.

Respond to that and what the fight-back, that you’d like to see, what it should look like?

And I think also we have to definitely make clear that is not all white politicians, there are some good folks out there who are allies but it’s a kind of white politician that we need to address this issue towards and that is the right-wing, Tea Party, white politician type of person who is out there doing the evil deeds that are taking place in Tucson, Arizona.

So you are saying someone trying to describe the racism done to them is inherently racist? Standing up for themselves is racist rather than a race issue?

How exactly does that work?

….who are these right wing, Tea party, white politician type doing these evil deeds? Name them.
Identify them.

I suggest you ask him. I am not the one that said it.

I stand by my earlier post and won’t be swayed. This article and author are making this a racist and not a race issue. Do a little research and you’ll find…. 1 reason is because of an author of one of the books that got removed.

I did research. You have not made a single valid point for the removal of this material. They interviewed a guy who is upset and still the best you have is that he points out what he believed they did.

What did this author get removed from?

I’m posting the formal letter showing that John Huppenthal ADE director was doing his job.

http://saveethnicstudies.org/assets/...of_finding.pdf

The question is more to do with the law itself than the compliance to it.

Then I’m posting a response by the TUSD board to his decision.

http://www.tusd1.org/contents/govboa...nMAS011012.pdf

That was not the response to his decision, it is a statement of compliance to avoid loosing about a million dollars in funding.

A school district in Tucson voted to dismantle its ethnic studies program after more than $1 million of monthly state funding was to be cut off in response to conclusions by Arizona's public schools chief and a judge that the program violated the law.
» Tucson school district to dismantle ethnic studies » News -- GOPUSA

The appeal by TUSD was put forth earlier that the actual date of the decision.

The Tucson Unified School District has lost its appeal of state education head John Huppenthal's decision regarding the Mexican-American Studies Program.

TUSD loses ethnic studies appeal - Tucson News Now

And then the pictures of the right wing, white politicians of the board who agreed with him.
Tucson Unified School District - Governing Board

These are not the politician he is speaking of as I mentioned earlier. It was the law makers.

[Trojan_Ripper]

So you are saying someone trying to describe the racism done to them is inherently racist? Standing up for themselves is racist rather than a race issue?

How exactly does that work?

Yawn! How they are standing up for themselves by being racist.... makes any points they might have, moot, worthless, and only hurts their cause.

I suggest you ask him. I am not the one that said it.

I suggest you know if you’re going to defend them in any sort of way.

I did research. You have not made a single valid point for the removal of this material. They interviewed a guy who is upset and still the best you have is that he points out what he believed they did.

Well you didn’t research very well. First I never tried to make a valid point for the removal of any material.

Yes, the interviewed guy was upset, and while trying to incorporate racism, made himself out to be a racist bigot.

What did this author get removed from?

Not the author/writer of the article or the interviewee, but an author of one of the books removed. Sheesh….keep up if your defending something, even if your not sure what you’re talking about.

That was not the response to his decision, it is a statement of compliance to avoid loosing about a million dollars in funding.

Try reading the fucking announcement:

The resolution is in response to Administrative Law Judge Decision of December 27, 2011 and the January 6, 2012 decision of John Huppenthal, Superintendent of Public Instruction of the State of Arizona.

Tucson Unified School District - Announcements

Dude, you are wasting my time. You don’t think they are as racist as the ones they condemn, and I know they are by their spoken word.
You don’t see it, I do. There are tons of articles written on this subject, “well written articles” that I agree with. They didn't make this a racist issue…a white mans issue...try looking one of those up. Out!

[BlackSheep]

Yawn! How they are standing up for themselves by being racist.... makes any points they might have, moot, worthless, and only hurts their cause.

And yet you do not demonstrate how any are racist.

I suggest you know if you’re going to defend them in any sort of way.

And I suggest you know if you are going to attack.

Well you didn’t research very well. First I never tried to make a valid point for the removal of any material.

And what did I miss?

Yes, the interviewed guy was upset, and while trying to incorporate racism, made himself out to be a racist bigot.

Incorporate racism? Do you mean claim racism?
You still have not show how his statements were racist.

Not the author/writer of the article or the interviewee, but an author of one of the books removed. Sheesh….keep up if your defending something, even if your not sure what you’re talking about.

A typo. I am not the one who simply makes claims with no support.
What did the authors books get removed from?

Try reading the fucking announcement:

The resolution is in response to Administrative Law Judge Decision of December 27, 2011 and the January 6, 2012 decision of John Huppenthal, Superintendent of Public Instruction of the State of Arizona.

They key is they is challenge it earlier as demonstrated by my link. Instead of focusing on the turn of a word. They did challenge the law and lost. You know this, but you play games.

Dude, you are wasting my time. You don’t think they are as racist as the ones they condemn, and I know they are by their spoken word.

Your claim of knowing it is meaningless. Support your claim.

You don’t see it, I do. There are tons of articles written on this subject, “well written articles” that I agree with. They didn't make this a racist issue…a white mans issue...try looking one of those up. Out!

I have and I disagree. Support you claim.