Emotion and reason. Cause and effect?

[seyorni]

Thoughts:
Instinct, it seems to me, is a hardwired reflex or behavioral response, largely unconnected with reason. In fact, the less reason a being has, the more instinct seems to dominate.

Neuro-psychology I think of as an operating system, automatic, and personalized by culture and socialization.

Emotion motivates.

Reason and logic are more formal, algorithmic devices. Mechanisms of analysis, planning and execution.

Instinct and emotion, unregulated by learned moral principles or social values, seek to benefit the individual without consideration of externalized consequences. In a society, they can be dangerous.

Hominens are hardwired to function optimally in small bands of hunter-gatherers. Psychologically we're intensely loyal to and supportive of our own band, but competitive with neighboring bands. Our altruism and moral universe is very narrow. Extending these to encompass a city-state or civilization is problematic. We're not naturally adapted to a civilized lifestyle. The requisite values and behaviors must be learned, and are only tenuously installed.

[BlackSheep]

We hear all the time about using our reason and not our emotions.
I believe this is wrong.
I believe that a stimuli brings emotion, which brings forth reason.

Without emotion reason would not exist.
Thoughts?

I don't reason arises from emotions at all. Maybe you can explain how you came to this.

To me there are numerous parts of the human mind. Emotions are older and in many ways more powerful that reason. There are other things like hunger and pain that are very emotional like. There are also pattern recognition processes that are neither, but something separate again. These pattern recognition processes are often tied to gut feelings.

[Layman]

An example (maybe a bad example) If i did not know that a knife could cut me, and i cut myself an emoinatnal response would accrue that would allow reason (if this term is wrong again please correct me) to form, i.e. that this knife can cut my skin. the emotion was pain. If pain is not a right term for emotion, then please correct me.

Emotion being the true cause of any reasoning that happens. Pain happiness, saddens, i believe that we are effected and we either try to end the pain or try to find happiness again, and the only way of achieving both is through reasoning.

I don't reason arises from emotions at all. Maybe you can explain how you came to this.

These pattern recognition processes are often tied to gut feelings.

for the pattern rec. proc. i could only find it on machines input/out put values type thing this same thing could be applied to humans im guessing. Finding a pattern of reason from emotion with the example i have given i think would happen.

[Layman]

Instinct and emotion, unregulated by learned moral principles or social values, seek to benefit the individual without consideration of externalized consequences. In a society, they can be dangerous.

Reason and logic are more formal, algorithmic devices. Mechanisms of analysis, planning and execution.

a society must be built even if it is in a small form of a group...so if these go unchecked and anger and violence happen and suddenly someone address these emotions to the cause of the problems (his sudden urge to correct these problems could be empathy), then emotion was the cause of the reasoning.
"learned moral principles" have to be learned at some point for every individual, they have to control their emotions, esp if the turn to actions, by way of reasoning.

[BlackSheep]

a society must be built even if it is in a small form of a group...so if these go unchecked and anger and violence happen and suddenly someone address these emotions to the cause of the problems (his sudden urge to correct these problems could be empathy), then emotion was the cause of the reasoning.

Not at all. Emotions can arrive at solutions without it becoming reason. Adults, especially parents find baby's cute. This is an evolved emotion to decrease the likelihood we will kill them when are very demanding. It is not reason. Reason is used to understand this. Most people feel this and never thin about it at all.

[Layman]

Not at all. Emotions can arrive at solutions without it becoming reason. Adults, especially parents find baby's cute. This is an evolved emotion to decrease the likelihood we will kill them when are very demanding. It is not reason. Reason is used to understand this. Most people feel this and never thin about it at all.

But thats my point an emotion was there and reason was formed by the onset of that emotion.
whether most people explore these emotions is up to them. the emotion didn't really arrive at a solution it just used "cuteness", possibly love or empathy (a parent would feel pain at the lost of a child) instead of anger.....still an emotion.... they have the emotion and say why? but if we feel a pain we could say that pain stops us from doing it, but who hasn't as a kid kept doing something even when pain was there?...but not the why it happens.....the why this pain, happiness, empathy leads to reason/understanding...but it was based of an emotion.
in my opinion whether this is an evolved emotion seems debatable..... the depression that new mothers go through, the abandonment of babies if we wanted to we could even throw abortion or adoption in there as well as debatable scenarios for the "evolved emotion"

but i will say that's an interesting topic to see how other people think on it.

[BlackSheep]

But thats my point an emotion was there and reason was formed by the onset of that emotion.

Maybe you need to define what you mean by reason.

whether most people explore these emotions is up to them. the emotion didn't really arrive at a solution it just used "cuteness", possibly love or empathy (a parent would feel pain at the lost of a child) instead of anger.....still an emotion.... they have the emotion and say why? but if we feel a pain we could say that pain stops us from doing it, but who hasn't as a kid kept doing something even when pain was there?...but not the why it happens.....the why this pain, happiness, empathy leads to reason/understanding...but it was based of an emotion.

And my point is that in most cases it doesn't. Most people don't think I love my child so I should not kill them or I should care for them, the just do. Reason often counters base emotions, instincts or drives.

in my opinion whether this is an evolved emotion seems debatable..... the depression that new mothers go through, the abandonment of babies if we wanted to we could even throw abortion or adoption in there as well as debatable scenarios for the "evolved emotion"

Depression in a clinical sense is not an emotion. I suffered through it for over ten years, it is far more complex than that.

[grandpa]

Maybe you need to define what you mean by reason.
And my point is that in most cases it doesn't.

I might turn to reason and emotion to judge things. I don't think we need a big dichotomy between the two. Part of recognizing something as stupid or wrong is "feeling" that it is. Pair that with reasons for those feelings and you've got something.

For example: What makes a neighborhood either good or crummy?
Look at a neighborhood, consider your initial feelings, then pair them with the
characteristics of the neighborhood. Then you can say, "Hmmm, maybe Palookaville isn't right for me."

Grandpa h.

[BlackSheep]

I might turn to reason and emotion to judge things. I don't think we need a big dichotomy between the two. Part of recognizing something as stupid or wrong is "feeling" that it is. Pair that with reasons for those feelings and you've got something.

I think they are radically different.
Something being stupid or wrong is almost invariable an emotional thing. As for reasons - that is not the same as reasoning, which is what I think is mean in OP.

For example I can look at some food and feel is to gross. If I am assured it is not harmful and in fact good for me and tastes good i can use reason to overcome my emotional response to the food's appearance.

For example: What makes a neighborhood either good or crummy?
Look at a neighborhood, consider your initial feelings, then pair them with the
characteristics of the neighborhood. Then you can say, "Hmmm, maybe Palookaville isn't right for me."

Reason is what I apply to the characteristics as well as how I feel. I may reason that the pros outweigh the cons and try it for a while. Now even if I have no feelings towards the neighborhood I will use reason to determine if I want to move there.

[Layman]

Maybe you need to define what you mean by reason.

i agree, and there's alot of info i gotta check out.
but you guys/gals have given me alot of things to look up learn from so Thank you.

Depression in a clinical sense is not an emotion. I suffered through it for over ten years, it is far more complex than that.

Im sorry to hear of your suffering and hope it becomes better for you.

[BlackSheep]

i agree, and there's alot of info i gotta check out.
but you guys/gals have given me alot of things to look up learn from so Thank you.

You are welcome for my part, it is all about learning.

Im sorry to hear of your suffering and hope it becomes better for you.

Thanks. It is to a degree, if I can get a job it will help a lot. My life has been through the ringer in the past few years, but I will come out of it stronger.