Reincarnation: A Reason Based Fact of Reality

[truthreality]

The dogma of reincarnation evolves from hard cause and effect determinism.

That's not true. Reincarnation existed in east before determinism was introduced in the west through the Abrahamic religions and physics.

Like the motivational prowess of post-death existence with the Abrahamics, the dogma of reincarnation carries the imagination beyond the grave.

Imagination? I don't think so. Reincarnation carries the theory of existence beyond the grave. Not imagination.

The pragmatic key to any post death dogma is determined by how well its tenets and precepts serve the living.

Truth is truth regardless of whether or not people believe it is true. It exists and is not influenced by the beliefs of people.

How does past life existence come to be believed? By experiencing a past life, of course.

More like past life existence can be realized through knowledge.

Patnjali Yoga Sutras 3.18 "By making samyama on previous thought-waves, one obtains knowledge of one's past lives."

Switching on active imagination's circuits to effectively give an experience of one or more past lives, if not a life changer event, can be life explaining of relationship challenges faced by an individual in the physical, or other goal including entering the "Kingdom of God."

Experiencing a sufficiently powerful, satisficing (satisfying and sufficient), timely episode at the edges of active imagination's potential releases a lot of emotional energy in the unraveling of the knotted discursives of pre-adult conditioning. That emotional energy, as an unexpected relief, experienced as ecstatic, can be guided to real social and physical effect by a shaman or teacher or any so skilled. Usually the time immediately after a powerful experience shows the visionary to be fanatical and if not yet, CAN be directed to whatever cause the leader wants to dream up by reordering the now broken up discursive knots of previously conditioned thought. Here there be dragons.

Karmic based reincarnation, talking to Jesus and God, talking to plants and animals, divination coincidence, etc. are confirmed in the mind of the new visionary. And all from a natural propensity of the brain to isolate and project to itself as happens in dreams but in full consciousness.

The theory of reincarnation does not exist because of imagination.

Bhagavad Gita 4.5 " Krishna said: Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot, O subduer of the enemy!"

You have only proved that the theory of reincarnation is a legitamate theory that should be considered. Our dreams are a mixture of our past experiences and present desires. We are beings who seek the truth and answers. The fact that our mind and brain have an innate need to dream up past lives shows that there is grain of truth to it and it is a deep seeded belief. Past live impressions exist in our subconscious mind. Dreams and imagination express our subconscious mind.

Evangelicals believe in an intimate God who talks to them personally because their churches coach them in a new theory of mind. In these communities, religious belief is “more like learning to do something than to think something. . . . People train the mind in such a way that they experience part of their mind as the presence of God.”" ~ When God Talks Back

Umm... No. People don't believe they have a relationship with God because someone trains them to or because they train there mind to do so. People don't try to deceive themselves. They believe they have a relationship with God out of there own experience.

"A CAUTION: If you have any psychiatric condition or suspect that you might have some difficulties handling your dreams, work with the imagination, or maintaining a comfortable grasp on the requirements of everyday living, please do not work with Active Imagination alone. Work with mental health professionals who can advise you on how best to approach this sort of work.For those who have no such problems, Active Imagination should make for a helpful and exciting way of learning how to live a meaningful life." ~ The Mystical Experience Registry: Getting Started with Active Imagination

Everyone dreams and everyone has nightmares.

[truthreality]

The hell you say? And what qualifications should I demand of another to consider him/her an authority on G_d, the Unknowable within the Unapproachable Light? Self plucked out eyeballs?

I am not an authority on God. Whether you believe or do not believe in God the idea of God is one who is not omniscient. That was the point I was making.

[truthreality]

I understand all that, but that is not inherently karma. A deity could get angry for some reason that does not really involve wrong doing and then in a rage cause some catastrophe that is not even related. It is cause and effect that is metaphysical, but it is not karma.

The results of karma is not determined by the whims of a deity. It is a law like any other law. The role of God is simply the distributor of the fruits (results) of Karma. He has no bias.

Don't try to turn this around. You claimed all reincarnation arose from Hinduism. I am not even suggesting it arose from the named ones, but earlier Indian tradition that was possibly similar to those.

Reincarnation arose from Santana Dharma (the eternal religion). Hinduism is a recent name for this tradition.

[minorwork]

A lot of people imagine past lives. The details are seldom historically accurate, except to films and books the subject has experienced. It is a way of falsifying truth surely?

Historical details are NOT of primary significance beyond placing the location of the reviewer into a recognizable location NOT of his/her present situation. Future life experiences leave historical accuracy questions moot, as should be the historically correct details of past lives reviewed.

[minorwork]

That's not true. Reincarnation existed in east before determinism was introduced in the west through the Abrahamic religions and physics.

Yes. My fault. Clarifying. The concept of reincarnation was based in the east as the idea of cause/effect determinism was in the west. Same basic denotation, different cultural connotations. The evolved organisms subject to predator/prey survival challenges innately, genetically react by cause and effect determinations or the line got extincted. Karma in the East and determinism in the West viewing the same reality where the cause and effect relationships are established seemingly by instinct to a certain age, then taught.

Imagination? I don't think so. Reincarnation carries the theory of existence beyond the grave. Not imagination.

Certainly is a dual aspect to the process needed to intentionally experience past or future lives. Reincarnation, being an idea relating the present to the past and future, indeed, in its dogma, does not give dissolution of the body credit for ending experience. But that IS dogma.

Whereas the reality of past/future life reviewing is an active process of imagination that gives the senses the input that the interpretive mind can operate from and bring unconscious imbalances into consciousness detaching the revelation from the responsibility of owning the reason for the imbalance that otherwise blocks the view from full consciousness. The Family Circle cartoon deflects responsibility for eating the cookies to Mr. Nobody and Not Me, mildly blocking responsibility whereas the deepest sources of imbalance can not be faced or withstood by full consciousness because of the attachment to the reality of self responsibility. The review of lives sufficiently removes responsibility to an apparent other time and other person for as much as can be withstood of the deep attachments on which the dysfunction of present life has been rocked off balance by not compensating in the present life.

Can a reviewer/previewer fail to compensate to restore balance? Fail to learn from the review/preview? Surely if he has reviewed/previewed from the wrong perspective or motive, it be likely.

Truth is truth regardless of whether or not people believe it is true. It exists and is not influenced by the beliefs of people.

More dogma. Go, ...experience ...return ...interpret ...act ...love.

More like past life existence can be realized through knowledge.

Too esoteric for me. Unless... Do you say so from experience? Analysis?

Patnjali Yoga Sutras 3.18 "By making samyama on previous thought-waves, one obtains knowledge of one's past lives."

When hearing the techniques of getting experience from Patnjali or myself, it is hearsay dogma without your own experience only suitable for instruction to the quest's goal, attainment of Samadhi, or stages in the progression to Samadhi.

The theory of reincarnation does not exist because of imagination.

Realizing the inevitability of death and/or experience of the transcendent in the form of past life preview or review, these drive the critical mind to theory. You're correct.

Bhagavad Gita 4.5 " Krishna said: Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot, O subduer of the enemy!"

Enemy/death.

You have only proved that the theory of reincarnation is a legitimate theory that should be considered.

I don't see that. NOT proved but to myself. I am not responsible for dogma's demanded destination beyond birth and death JUST to satisfy dogma. Dogma does not carry the viewer to that conclusion. The wings of active imagination can and more.

Our dreams are a mixture of our past experiences and present desires. We are beings who seek the truth and answers. The fact that our mind and brain have an innate need to dream up past lives shows that there is grain of truth to it and it is a deep seeded belief. Past live impressions exist in our subconscious mind. Dreams and imagination express our subconscious mind.

Hmm.

Umm... No. People don't believe they have a relationship with God because someone trains them to or because they train their mind to do so.

Then what is the purpose of practicing Samyama? Samyama: Technique to rewire your brain - Nithyananda Swami Devotees Sharing & Networking Blissful Sangha

People don't try to deceive themselves.

What is a lying narcissist doing then, or any that lies?

They believe they have a relationship with God out of their own experience.

The author's opinion is what I quoted. I agreed with the author because of what I saw during a revival at iWorship, Springfield, IL. I can agree with your last statement. That's my theme too.

Everyone dreams and everyone has nightmares.

Like John of Patmos?

[minorwork]

I am not an authority on God. Whether you believe or do not believe in God the idea of God is one who is not omniscient. That was the point I was making.

I've not typically much going for reading minds and such, but, ...are you sure about that?

[iolo]

Historical details are NOT of primary significance beyond placing the location of the reviewer into a recognizable location NOT of his/her present situation. Future life experiences leave historical accuracy questions moot, as should be the historically correct details of past lives reviewed.

So evidence is just decoration and it's all a metter of faith?

[grandpa]

So evidence is just decoration and it's all a [matter]
of faith?

Soem just aren't very concerned about history, and the paragraph you responded to shows it better than anything I can say. But the truth is, history is a major part of who and what we are.

Grandpa h.

[BlackSheep]

The results of karma is not determined by the whims of a deity. It is a law like any other law. The role of God is simply the distributor of the fruits (results) of Karma. He has no bias.

I understand what karma is and while you may believe in a singular deity many do not. I was explaining how cause and effect do not need to equal karma. You are trying to defend how it must be by conforming to the laws of karma.

Reincarnation arose from Santana Dharma (the eternal religion). Hinduism is a recent name for this tradition.

Around and around we go. As I said I can see no evidence whatsoever that Druidism, African, American and Austrian religions arose from Santana Dharma or Hinduism. Druidism and many of these traditions all contain reincarnation without the trappings of karma.

[minorwork]

So evidence is just decoration and it's all a matter of faith?

Not certain of your antecedents. I use a restrictive sense of faith to make any sense of it, namely, faith is acting on beliefs without proof.

Evidence? Evidence of what? Past and future life experience is subjective which defines the limits of what is experienced to whoever is reporting the experience. Do you mean the sensory experience of past or future life incidents? The memory of the experience is all the evidence that is available and is subjective.

What is a matter of faith? I'm uncertain of the antecedent to your "it's all." Were you speaking to the experiencing of a past or future life, then there is no more faith involved in experiencing those than there is in everyday life that you're experiencing. More than one witness to a single event reports vary significantly. Instant replays in sports attempt to correct witness variation and sometimes even succeed.

Having said that, you may be referring to what is made of the experience. And there your assessment can be accurate in almost any sense of use of the word "faith." There, interpretations describing the nature of the experience runs the gamut of being a viewing of the Akashic records, a gift of God, accessing another's personality programming in the Matrix, accessing genetic memory, possessed by another, etc.

What is the significance of the experience? Does it give any insight to present difficulties? Does it confirm a dubious decision that must take place in the morning? Does it help or hinder? Advocates of pursuing previews say they help to prevent future failures such as hitting a deer that is prevented by having a preview of the accident and so, in the future waking life, slowing in the vicinity of the accident when driving. The flat tire in a preview caused an accident and so air pressures are checked before using the car in waking life.

Advocates of pursuing reviews say they help to assuage guilt for actions of a person that can not be let go though they cannot be changed. The review of a past life allows the burden of blame to be lifted for unfortunate decisions for previously being unaware of the reasons for past actions of their waking life.

The nature of the topic is such that there is no specific worldview from which to discuss the experiences but from the point of view of a skeptic. I'm not saying there is any truth to the reality of any personality surviving into birth or after death. Doesn't have to be in order for the experience of reviews and previews to prove beneficial to one experiencing them as they appear, previews or reviews of a lived life other than their waking life.

[minorwork]

Some just aren't very concerned about history, and the paragraph you responded to shows it better than anything I can say. But the truth is, history is a major part of who and what we are.

You're taking me out of context. I've failed. The paragraph was intended to separate recorded history from the perceived historical context of dreams, life previews and reviews, and other visions that are subjective. The experiencer's vision's context seems out of place historically from his/her waking life and that jarring recognition of displacement is what gives power to the experience to affect beneficial change in the reviewer/previewer.

You are correct that history has formative influence in each of our lives. The details are tuff to untangle in significance, priority, type, as well as responsive ability to that history. Memes.

[truthreality]

Certainly is a dual aspect to the process needed to intentionally experience past or future lives. Reincarnation, being an idea relating the present to the past and future, indeed, in its dogma, does not give dissolution of the body credit for ending experience. But that IS dogma.

So is your contention that consciousness ends with the death of the body?