Understanding Determinism leads to increased Empathy and a better world

[The Black Ghost]

Determinism: The idea that all our thoughts and actions are dictated by a causal relationship with our environment.

Empathy: The ability to understand other people and "put yourself in their shoes" so to speak.


Thesis: By understanding the cause-effect relationship of determinism, we can become more understanding of people by seeing how their history and environment shaped them into becoming who they are. By seeing these relationships, we can focus on the root causes and problems in the environment (economic, political, and physical) and addressing them so that future generations grow up with more positive influences.

In practicality, this might lead you to understand that a strong education and an understanding of ethics taught in the classroom might lead to a statistically higher percentage of non-violent and benevolent people. In other words, this is a way of shaping society to become the best it can be--and it starts from understanding causality.

[lsbskins1]

Good start, but don't get too linear in thinking. Most relationships in this world are recursive on some level. The effected can effect right back. It is about making relationships more reciprocal and less about who is the leader and who is led. Empowerment, baby!

[loser]

Your given definition of 'determinism' is true only if "our environment" is fully understood. As lsbskins1 said, you're off to a good start, but...

I am a firm believer in 'cause and effect' and I am more empathetic for that very reason (and a major in Chemistry and a minor in psychology urged it along). However, much in life is either unseen and/or unknown. Therefore, our 'environment' must not be restricted to our physical world, as some will undoubtedly do.

However, I disagree completely with your assessment as presented in your final paragraph. "A strong education" could be reworded as "indoctrinated deception" and the "ethics taught in the classroom" are extremely suspect. As thousands of years of history has shown, mankind is not becoming more empathetic (as a race) as knowledge increases but less.

Nevertheless, you must have some 'good' professors and be attending a 'good' school to have such an optimistic view.

[The Black Ghost]

Your given definition of 'determinism' is true only if "our environment" is fully understood. As lsbskins1 said, you're off to a good start, but...

I am a firm believer in 'cause and effect' and I am more empathetic for that very reason (and a major in Chemistry and a minor in psychology urged it along). However, much in life is either unseen and/or unknown. Therefore, our 'environment' must not be restricted to our physical world, as some will undoubtedly do.

What do you mean by physical world?

However, I disagree completely with your assessment as presented in your final paragraph. "A strong education" could be reworded as "indoctrinated deception" and the "ethics taught in the classroom" are extremely suspect. As thousands of years of history has shown, mankind is not becoming more empathetic (as a race) as knowledge increases but less.

Nevertheless, you must have some 'good' professors and be attending a 'good' school to have such an optimistic view.

I disagree entirely. I think it is the lack of knowledge that creates conflict. People see things from a narrow point of view without looking at the big picture or thinking rationally and/or logically. The more we know, the more we can make objective assessment.

Also, Im not sure if a study on empathy has been done, but I would wager you are incorrect. Now more than ever I think people are more compassionate and caring towards others who are in need. The number of people participating in groups for charitable organizations and organizations like Amnesty International has risen. The crime rate (at least in America) is very low compared to in the past. This is partly because of increased standards of living including education. Education isnt just school--its access to fair knowledge...

[Affluence]

umm, no actually. I believe in prophecy and that everything that will happen Is determined and can be seen in the stars. Further, the freewill that is our birthright (choices) once pared up with fate( what is determined but hasent happened yet) manifests the future.

Still further, I read a compelling article a while back which showed that 2% of people are what we call Suppressives, Evil, vile souls that thrive on the tourmoile of others. These people are not a product of the environment but rather, the condition is largely genetic; a bad seed if you will.

[Jack]

I believe in prophecy and that everything that will happen Is determined and can be seen in the stars. Further, the freewill that is our birthright (choices) once pared up with fate( what is determined but hasent happened yet) manifests the future.

Aren't predetermination and the notion of free will contradictory and mutually exclusive? What good is trying to exercise free will if the future has already been determined?

[Dave In Canada]

umm, no actually. I believe in prophecy and that everything that will happen Is determined and can be seen in the stars. Further, the freewill that is our birthright (choices) once pared up with fate( what is determined but hasent happened yet) manifests the future.

I have responded to this recently Affluence and you ignored my question/post.

If we truly have free will than should our choices not affect outcomes? How can our fate as individuals and as a species be predetermined if choices have yet to be made?

True free will can only exist in a determined state.

[ALIHAYMEG]

Determinism: The idea that all our thoughts and actions are dictated by a causal relationship with our environment.

Empathy: The ability to understand other people and "put yourself in their shoes" so to speak.


Thesis: By understanding the cause-effect relationship of determinism, we can become more understanding of people by seeing how their history and environment shaped them into becoming who they are. By seeing these relationships, we can focus on the root causes and problems in the environment (economic, political, and physical) and addressing them so that future generations grow up with more positive influences.

I like your definition of determinism. That causal relationship with the environment is the key to unraveling and guiding behavioral outcomes. I'm glad you didn't include the completely false notion of "genetic determinism". There is no such thing. It is impossible to understand genetic expression outside of the context of environment. It is also worthwhile to note that the one factor most responsible for behavioral violence is inequality.
The Evidence in Detail | The Equality Trust

You are also onto something in regards to education being the key to making the necessary changes. What Loser pointed out is also very relevant though; the messages being received and 'indoctrinated" currently tend to be divisive rather than encouraging people to see themselves as part of a larger whole. That is the only way to become truly empathetic. The key is to provide the right "kind" of education that will encourage "inclusion" rather than self serving "individualism".

[The Black Ghost]

umm, no actually. I believe in prophecy and that everything that will happen Is determined and can be seen in the stars. Further, the freewill that is our birthright (choices) once pared up with fate( what is determined but hasent happened yet) manifests the future.

Still further, I read a compelling article a while back which showed that 2% of people are what we call Suppressives, Evil, vile souls that thrive on the tourmoile of others. These people are not a product of the environment but rather, the condition is largely genetic; a bad seed if you will.

WHAT? Prophecy and freewill and fate? That seems like a contradiction to me but I'll wait for your further explanation.

Also...the thing about genetic pre-disposition is bullshit. 2% of people are evil vile souls? You realize that is over 160 million people? I dont deny genetics plays a role in determinism, but you can't throw everything in the genetics category. Socialization and environment are equally if not more important to how we turn out.

[Angry Citizen]

To imply that one can 'understand' determinism is to imply that determinism is assured. Cause and effect is much like Newton's Laws. It makes a lot of sense to us here in the macroscopic world, but it might not really be accurate. I would love to see cause and effect toppled. Its reign has ended in the quantum world; and who knows how far quantum effects can propagate into the macroscopic world?

[lsbskins1]

To imply that one can 'understand' determinism is to imply that determinism is assured. Cause and effect is much like Newton's Laws. It makes a lot of sense to us here in the macroscopic world, but it might not really be accurate. I would love to see cause and effect toppled. Its reign has ended in the quantum world; and who knows how far quantum effects can propagate into the macroscopic world?

I don't think cause and effect can be toppled in the macroscopic world. I'm too lazy to go back and get the exact quote that I just read in one of the "snappy statement" threads, but it was something along the lines of "Let me hit you with a brick and you tell me if you feel it". Any given cause might not lead, absolutely, to some expected effect. And, what is doing the causing and what is being effected probably alters outcomes. However, that cause exists and therefore, effects follow is probably, pretty much, with us forever. For me, the salient point is more, "Always remember, when we cause we are also effected by what we cause." We can put up a sign that says "One Way", but we can never really preclude traffic being able to flow in both directions.

[Angry Citizen]

Any given cause might not lead, absolutely, to some expected effect.

And the converse is also true.

Let's spin a scenario. A person gets cancer. Why? Drank some water with plutonium in it (we all have). One of those plutonium atoms spontaneously shot off a particle (it is random, from what we can tell), which interacted with a specific DNA strand causing stomach cancer. Person dies. Had this person survived, what effect might she have had on the world? All decided by the random popping of an unstable nucleus... at least according to theories which ascribe to near-total determinism.