45,000 Verizon jobs open up in Northeast?

[Trojan_Ripper]

45,000 Verizon employees leave their job vacant to strike; smart or dumb?

Verizon could probably fill those “vacant” jobs in 1 day; while 45,000 jobs sure would go a long way towards the unemployment rate this month.

You would have thought the wire line employees would be happy to have a job since that part of the business has been in a decline for the last 10 years. But who knows what Verizon was thinking by asking them to contribute to their health care premiums that the employee hasn't had to pay a dime into….the gall of some businesses. Hope they keep their corporation here and not ship it overseas.

So the debate is:

Are unions once again demanding too much from employers during a horrendous economic point in our country? What can be gained or lost by striking at this time by any union?

45K Verizon workers strike after labor talks fail - Business - msnbc.com

[Yarn]

You can't replace 45,000 workers in day. You can't ship overseas jobs that require one be physically present locally. There is a limited amount of qualified personel to do even work that can be done over a distance. And the US market is too lucrative to leave over a cost as small as the unions are demanding. Hence, while a reduction in employment is perfectly plausible, a 45,000 job loss is not in the playings.

Additionally, your article says:

The 45,000 workers went on strike after their contract expired at midnight Saturday. That contract covers the company's division that oversees landlines and Internet networks.

So it is not just the dying part of the company's business that is in revolt, but rather also the thriving part.

Verizon has a nearly 6% profit margin:
VZ - VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS INC Financial Ratios - Forbes.com

That's neither small nor enormous.

It has dividends, but some of the some of the profit is spent on investment and thereby improving service,
Investor Relations

So the series of negative consequences of increased labor compensation, and, given the fact that the cost of health care continuously rises faster than inflation, an increase is what we are looking at if the terms of old contract are maintained, include some combination of: less employment, higher prices, and/or inferior service.

On the plus side, the union workers would get to retain their present quality of living even though this quality has become more expensive.

Without even ballpark figures to quantify these positive and negative effects, I am not in any position to make a moral judgement regarding whether what wouldbe gained/maintained would be worth what was lost.

[Jack]

Unions have lost most if not all of their bargaining power now that unemployment has increased to the level it's at today. People are willing to work for minimum pay and no benefits just to have an income. A bad economy is in many ways a boon to employers.

[barts]

Are unions once again demanding too much from employers during a horrendous economic point in our country?

It's worth remembering that it was not unions or workers that caused this "horrendous economic point in our country" but businesses and employers and the politicians whom they bought.

It's also worth bearing in mind that it is workers who are bailing out the businesses that caused the economic problems.

Demanding too much? They're not only not demanding enough, they should be calling for a nation-wide general strike in the United States to take their country and economy back from "business" and "employers".

[Listening]

It's worth remembering that it was not unions or workers that caused this "horrendous economic point in our country" but businesses and employers and the politicians whom they bought.

It's also worth bearing in mind that it is workers who are bailing out the businesses that caused the economic problems.

Demanding too much? They're not only not demanding enough, they should be calling for a nation-wide general strike in the United States to take their country and economy back from "business" and "employers".

You would think that 45,000 could muster enough stock between them to have a voice on the BOD. Why don't they take that approach.

They are not bailing anyone out. They are working and earning a wage as part of an economic engine. If they are important, they have leverage.

A strike is just a negotiating tactic....like anything else in business, it is about who gets what.

Tell me that most of these folks would not change jobs for a better offer...and then complain more about greed....please.

[RickSp]

Verizon and one of its unions failed to reach an agreement before the contract expired. The workers have every right to go on strike if they see fit.

Verizon has never treated its employees very well. (They aren't much better with their customers.) They have a long history of labor problems which are at least as much the company's fault as the union's.

[lsbskins1]

Oh, those damn tax paying employees, thinking they have rights and thinking that their tax dollars went to the bailouts! When will the unwashed masses ever come back to the realization that the Lords of the Manor give them their livelihoods and they should not question their superior understanding and position? If only we could bring feudal serfdom back, all would be right in the world! Get down on your knees every night and thank the good Lord in heaven that he put such knowing and powerful stewards over you, allowed you the means to put gruel on your table and stop being envious of the mutton and mead that is the birth right of your masters! Vile ingrates!

[grandpa]

Oh, those damn tax paying employees, thinking they have rights
and thinking that their tax dollars went to the bailouts!
When will the unwashed masses ever come back to the
realization that the Lords of the Manor give them their
livelihoods and they should not question their superior understanding and
position?

Noami Klein noted that "this crisis isn’t over, and the same people who justified
this bailout, who clamored for this bailout, are the very people who are
going to turn around and say to Barack Obama, 'We can’t afford for you
to make good on your election promises. We can’t afford universal
healthcare. In fact, we can’t afford what meager services Americans
get in exchange for their tax dollars, like Social Security payments.'
We’re already hearing this lowering of expectations now in the
national discourse."
http://www.alternet.org/economy/107458/naomi_klein:_the_borderline_illegal_deals_behind_the_$700_billion_bailout?page=7

It's almost like they're playing games. Of course, other games don't gamble so many livelihoods so easily.

I'm tempted to become Krishna conscious; to live according to the
authority of Bhagavad-gita.

Grandpa h.

[Anguspure]

It's worth remembering that it was not unions or workers that caused this "horrendous economic point in our country" but businesses and employers and the politicians whom they bought.

It's also worth bearing in mind that it is workers who are bailing out the businesses that caused the economic problems.

Demanding too much? They're not only not demanding enough, they should be calling for a nation-wide general strike in the United States to take their country and economy back from "business" and "employers".

There is truth in what you say (about the responsibility for the cock up) but any responsible union will have an eye on the extended long term, more so than the so called "management" that creates the mess.
A nation-wide strike might be a decisive blow of "we'll teach the bastards". But it is a bit more likely to be a cutting off of the nose to spite the face.
Who will meet the cost of rebuilding the nation once the businesses have been shut down?
Will it come out of your pocket?
Remember we're all in this together and that includes the ones who conned us.

[grandpa]

There is truth in what you say (about the responsibility
for the cock up) but any responsible union will have
an eye on the extended long term, more so than
the so called "management" that creates the mess.
A nation-wide strike might be a decisive blow of
"we'll teach the bastards".

Wwith this pathetic economy, what we're seeing are examples of proof of reincarnation of bad ideas. Society's institutions are out of touch, and keep recycling the mess over and over again. That's why calls for a general strike make some sense. Keep in mind, it doesn't mean everything shuts down and everybody starves. Workers make up the strikes, and they could provide for each other what "the bastards" won't.

Grandpa h.

[barts]

Tell me that most of these folks would not change jobs for a better offer...and then complain more about greed....please.

That being true, are you suggesting that these folks should be denied the right or ability for that matter to get the best deal they can?

Are you suggesting that these folks should not deal with their employer as they are being dealt with?

Now you tell me, would not Verizon jettison everyone of their employees if they could acquire indentured labor at a fraction of the cost of their current employees?

In general, this adversarial work environment was created by management and owners, not employees. The employees are reacting to an abusive employer motivated by short-term greed.

[barts]

There is truth in what you say (about the responsibility for the cock up) but any responsible union will have an eye on the extended long term, more so than the so called "management" that creates the mess.
A nation-wide strike might be a decisive blow of "we'll teach the bastards". But it is a bit more likely to be a cutting off of the nose to spite the face.
Who will meet the cost of rebuilding the nation once the businesses have been shut down?
Will it come out of your pocket?
Remember we're all in this together and that includes the ones who conned us.

First, there is no government or industry considering the "extended long term". For politicians, it's the next election. For business, it's tomorrow's stock price. The long term is long, long dead which is why we have the economic problems we face today.

As for a nation-wide strike, with great confidence I suggest that until ordinary people shut their countries down or burn their cities so that the rich suffer and live in fear there will be no change for the better. Such is history's lesson. Would it were not so. But it is. There would be no civil rights for blacks in America if Watts didn't burn.

I also suggest that this will be proven out, once again, in Britain this time. When the young--jobless and without hope--burn buildings the politicians and their rich masters will implement the necessary changes to insure more young and poor can find meaningful jobs and have meaningful futures. It's too sad and too true but until the powerful become fearful they do not give up the benefits they've acquired by plundering ordinary people, workers, and the poor--namely most of us.

Someone can be screwed for only so long before they turn on their rapist, even if the rapist is feeding them the very morsels of dreck that keep them alive.