Quote by: Dismay
Wow seems like a bit of a contradiction now.
No contradiction--they are one in purpose, not in being. The Father is greater because he is Jehovah the only true God. Psalm 83:18-John 17:1-6-- 1 cor 8:6
Wow seems like a bit of a contradiction now.
No contradiction--they are one in purpose, not in being. The Father is greater because he is Jehovah the only true God. Psalm 83:18-John 17:1-6-- 1 cor 8:6
Your imaginary friend loves me, this is supposed to mean anything to me... why?
So Jesus is God's bastard child nothing more.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
-H.L. Mencken
http://rosanigra.blogspot.com/
Bastard - Born of parents not married to each other; illegitimate.So Jesus is God's bastard child nothing more.
- Dismay
Well, if you want to get technical, he'd be the bastard son of God anyway...
So yeah. Unless God and Mary were married, Jesus is, in a literal sense, the bastard son of God.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
- New American Standard Bible. (Preferred among scholars)
Note: you have not made your religious views clear yet, so if the following does not apply to you (hint: it's italicized), feel free to ignore it.
Is it unpleasant for you to think of Jesus in this way? If you do not like to think of things this way, then I say "too bad." The fact that things are not how you would like them to be does NOT justify a belief that things are otherwise. If you are to show that Jesus IS God, you must provide sufficient evidence to counter the verses leveled against you which indicate that they are distinct and separate entities.
I now lay on the table:
John 17:3*
John 14:28
John 20:17*
Mark 13:32
Mark 16:19
Luke 22:69
Acts 2:33
Acts 7:55-56
Romans 8:34
1 Timothy 2:5
*(These have Jesus saying 'my God,' which would be funny language to use if he were God, don't you think?)
Yeah... I had a list of them prepared just in case I get into this particular discussion. (I do that a lot.)
Anyway, if you hold a trinitarian view, it would be nice if you could explain the language of these passages, and/or present enough counter-evidence to sway the argument in your favor. Until then, the claim that Jesus is God (which I acknowledge you did not actually make) is just another unfounded claim which we shall ruthlessly dismiss.
I shall actually go the extra mile and do the same with God himself. Until one presents enough evidence [for God] to sway the argument in his or her favor, it is just another unfounded claim which I shall ruthlessly dismiss.
This is not a signature
We're talking a lot of child support here, at the very least.
Grandpa h.
Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.
Jesus wasn't illegitimate...as no physical contact lead to his conception by Mary it falls in a special category made by God (great to be the rule maker)
I personally disagree withe the Trune God taught by modern day Christianity and believe it to be amalgamated from earlier Pagan beliefs.
But within the modern Christian sense God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three unique entities that make one God. This basically means athough they are not physically together, their actions are as one.
I would point out anyone can ruthlessly dismiss claims and opinions regardless of evidence and asking someone to prove the existence of God is pointless as you well know.
'SOLUM CERTUM NIBIL ESE CERTI, ET HOMINE NIBIL MISERIUS AUT SUPERBIUS'
I believe he was not perfect but he was a good man, trying to live a good life, in a bad time. His mistake was he try to teach every one else how to do the same, which went against the power structure of that time. Now how and where he got his directions from? I do not know. But you cannot deny the fact that there are a lot of good people, trying to live a good lives, in these troubled times. Which get their direction of him and how he lived.
Jesus is a good friend of mine.
... and I hope that I can claim to be a friend of his.Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13 (NIV)
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14 (NIV)
Yeah dude I was on that Jesus train too until he ordered me to be killed, and said slavery was cool.
Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
-Sincerely Jesus the loving
Ephesians 6:5
"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;"
- Christ da man
1 Timothy 6:1-2
"Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort."
-J-dawg
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
-H.L. Mencken
http://rosanigra.blogspot.com/
You really should tell the whole story.
This is precisely how"men of noble birth" who become "kings" are known to behave. Since when does the teller of a parable have to agree with everything the characters of his story do? Was Jesus not permitted to make candid observations of humanity?While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable,. . . He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. 'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.' 14 "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.' 15 "He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it. 16 "The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.' 17 "'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.' 18 "The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.' 19 "His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.' 20 "Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.' 22 "His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?' 24 "Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.' 25 "'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!' 26 "He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'" Luke 19:11-27 (NIV)
Furthermore, If it is accepted that men of "Noble birth" may behave in this manner to further thier own financial interests why is it not accepted that Jesus might act in a similar manner to destroy the enemies of the goodness and life of those he loves?
If you had entrusted the lives of your loved ones to an employee because you had to go away for sometime and found on your return that they had been neglected,would you treat them in a nice way? Would it be loving of you to do so?
Remember this parable was told to the apostles, and those others who were entrusted with the message of the death and resurrection of Christ for the salvation of all humanity. Quite a lot at stake really.
Once again you fail to tell the whole story:Ephesians 6:5
"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;"
1 Timothy 6:1-2
"Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort."
I would love to be under a master who followed this teaching.5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free. 9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him. Eph 6:5-9 (NIV)
I did work for one for a couple of years. But our employers hated his desire to serve those under his authority so much that they removed him.
A parallel with this is the horrifying admonition for women to submit to their husbands. Nobody tells the whole story, that the passage in question devotes most of the attention to the manner in which a husband is to behave towards the wife that is:
He chose the path of weakness to confound the strong.Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.Eph 5:25-33 (NIV)
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." John 18:36 (NIV)The weapons we weild are used within the degrees of Love, trust and hope.For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Eph 6:12 (NIV)
Jesus did not come to over throw the evil people of this world, thankfully, for I would be among them.
He was offered that power by the god of this world after his baptism if you remember.
He came to save the few who would trust Him before the destruction that is coming.
The call for his disciples is not to have an uprising to fix the evils of this world either but to live peaceful and giving/loving humble and,yes , submissive lives after the manner in which he conducted himself before the authorities of Roman Palestine.
This may not be powerful in the sense of creating a so called "christian" civilisation but if is far more powerful for bringing the gospel of peace to the attention of the world. Who do you think is more representative of the Love of a crucified Jesus? Mother Teresa or some "powerful ""chrIstian" religious Leader?
Slavery is evil, but what makes you think that the "necessary evils" of our own society are any more loving?
For the disciple however we are called to Love.
My point was, and still is, that if light was available to mankind, religion wasn't really it's source. Religion can just as easily be a source of darkness. And if people help each other, it isn't "God" promoting their dignity and respect, but their actions -- even if God is considered their inspiration.
Grandpa h.
Last edited by grandpa; 22nd July 2011 at 11:18 AM.
Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.
The whole story, as far as I'm concerned, is that he was a kook (assuming he actually existed).
Grandpa h.
Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.
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