If the choice I will make is already known, how can I change my mind?Quote by: el ايمان
Which, of course, means that she cannot do anything other than what you have already seen her do. It follows that if she cannot do other than what you have already seen her do, she has no real choices. She MUST choose what you have previously seen her choose, otherwise you are not omniscient. If she MUST choose a path, a previously known path, then she has no real free will.She wouldn't have had to skip the class for me to "remain" omniscient. I would know that she was going to skip the class because I was omniscient. If she had decided to go to class, I would have of course have known that in advance.
Sure. I'll grant that god would be able to visualize alternate choices, but it wouldn't change his previous knowledge of the choice you were going to make.With alll of the powers that believers assert God as having, it would not be strange that It is able to visualize alternate futures, even if It Itself knows that these alternate futures are hypothetic and will not occur.
It's too bad that you previously you stated:It's too bad I never said nor suggested that there were things unknown to God. Those sentiments were offered up by you. Hence, "strawmen".
If my choices change what god is able to see, he is not omniscient. Omniscient knowledge can not change. I guess you think that's a strawman too. To suggest that gods knowlede can change, is to suggest that he is not omniscient.Your choice affects what God is able to see as the certain future.
But if my choices are known before I make them, then they can not be chaged. Once again, can you make a choice other than what god has already seen?Incorrect. You are attempting to put the future into the past. One's choices have not been made until one chooses. You of course cannot change a choice you have made in the past without traveling to the past and choosing the alternative choice.
The difference is that with an omniscient observer, the future is fixed. Predetermined. Sure, you still get to make your choices, but they are just the choices you HAD to make. There is no freedom to change your mind.Regardless of the existance of an omniscient entity, with your debate points, free will would not exist. The presence of such an observant factor does not alter the choices we would make, because without intervention we would make the same choices as we would without the entity altogether.
Which is to say that we must make the choice that god has already seen us make. Correct?Your causal relationship theory is skewed. It is not that we cannot make a choice that God knows we will not make, it is that God will not ascertain a choice that we won't make.
Ah, the illusion of free willed spontaneity. While it seems to the person choosing the salad that it was a free choice, in reality, he chose the salad because that's what he HAD to choose. It's what he ALWAYS was going to choose!! Otherwise, god would have been wrong! How is this point not getting through to you?You make the choice whenever you choose to do something. If you think about eating a sandwich instead of a salad, but last minute decide to eat a salad, God has been aware that you would choose the salad ultimately.
No, you're right, it doesn't. It means that when you came to that decision, you could only have gone the way that was already set forth in the vision of your omniscient creator. What it gives you is the ILLUSION that you are able to make free, spontaneous choices. In reality, you are making the choice you were always supposed to make, from the beginning of time.This doesn't mean that you have already chosen the salad, however, before you have even decided that you are hungry.
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