Strange. He's a hero to me.I think Manning is an idiot, he shouldn't have given Assange these documents, but Manning is just a fool. He deserved to be put in jail, should get a lengthy sentence because he breached the trust given him and caused a great deal of harm in so doing.
Not so strange you think he's a hero, after all you think Manning disseminated these documents to show military misdeeds.
It is said that he disclosed the Collateral Murder video. That is more than enough to make him a hero in my mind.Quote by: rmnunez
Who are your heroes? Bush?
I don't know if that "collateral murder video" was from the same source, but there are so many diplomatic cables they've only released a fraction, Different sources online have made compilations based on their subjects, at the Spanish periodical El Pais they've a site just for the Spanish ones (there are thousands), cables releating to Israel are more numerous (and a substantial number were held back by Assange). Somewhere I saw a note claiming there were about half a million separate documents, I don't imagine Manning even saw most of them, it must have been just some massive download he delivered sight unseen.
If the "collateral murder video" is what you think is most important, you're seriously mistaken. Most specialists in international relations say diplomatic relations, not just with the US, have been dealt a serious setback. From now on diplomats will be mindful anything they say could end up splashed across the internet and this will make their interactions much more circumspect. That is definitely not a good thing in the 'concert of nations'.
Have you ever been in the military?? Have you ever had, anyone in your circle, in the military? Have you ever had anyone close to you, in the military, die for their country? Now do not come at me with both barrels, these are just questions. Language forgiven, I've know a few sailors "on leave" that would put you to shame in the "language"
Then let's just get the trial going and show us the proof that Manning did anything wrong. Just because you say he's guilty doesn't make him so, and to punish a person without proof of guilt used to be un-American.
I upped my income, up yours.
Please explain why not.
Then I suppose you wouldn't be opposed to subjecting illegal immigrants to the same procedures? Hypocrite.
I upped my income, up yours.
He will go on trial, a military trial. He will not be put to death. He will get justice, if he actually deserves it. In this day and age, and with the infamous internet, he will BE ok.
Wow, if I could have been a fly on the wall. If I could have been in his frame of mind. I smell a set up?
And you really believe that this is enough? That eventually he'll get a trial, so everything is ok? How long should he have to sit in prison before he gets tried? This is ok with you? Suppose he's innocent? Better yet, suppose it was you sitting in that cell. Would you be happy to hear, "don't worry, you'll be ok"?
I upped my income, up yours.
Nobody claims Manning doesn't have a right to a trial, he does and surely will get one. He isn't imprisoned as punishment for some crime, but as a precaution due to the risk he would escape beyond the court's jurisdiction. This rush to advocate for the 'whistleblower' overlooks some important considerations.
Though justice delayed is indeed justice denied, delay is a relative term. I'd agree the delay in Manning's trial is protracted, but this is not a simple case. The crime took place in a foreign jurisdiction, the 'damages' affect parties around the world, accomplices are still at large and all the evidence has not been gathered.
Additionally, Manning committed his crime in uniform while on active duty for the armed forces making use of military equipment and the responsibilities he was given to perform his duties, thus he falls fully within military jurisdiction and will be tried by court martial. This is similar, but a bit different from conventional criminal prosecution. One easily noted difference is that a suspect brought before a court martial doesn't have as much freedom as a civilian charged with the same crime, in the military your time belongs to Uncle Sam.
Manning passed on so many classified documents, Assange, with all the computer expertise and resources he has, had to divide the compressed files and distribute them in three sets (links were posted in the Wikileaks thread). Not everything has been published, not even Wikileaks has had the time to read all the hundreds of thousands of pages Manning dumped, so the magnitude of this crime is still unknown. Assange has indicated he has retained some documents which he thinks he can use for blackmail.
Manning's crime jeopardizes national security in many ways. There is information disclosed in the published documents which the US didn't want others to know the US had found out about, and that information in some cases may reveal its source. Manning's dissemination will cause existing sources to be much more discrete or just not disclose any more, the US diplomats will need to cultivate new sources and that will be more difficult as a consequence of these disclosures.
The net effect of all this dissemination is a 'chilling' in US diplomatic relations because its all diplomatic 'cables' relating the views and impressions of State Department employees in their interactions with other diplomats and foreign government figures. It is said a nation's relations with others are of just 3 sorts; economic, diplomatic and military, Manning has seriously impaired the diplomatic.
An intent to discredit, ridicule, criticise and harm the US government is evident from the material published, such purposes are inappropriate in a member of the armed forces on active duty. The documents Manning distributed show a wrongful intent, remember Manning is not a conscript, it was presumed love for his country and a sense of duty motivated his voluntary enlistment. If Manning joined the army to 'blow the whistle' on everything he felt was wrong with the military, there was deceit in his enlistment too.
The crime is international in its participants, locations and victims. International crimes with evidence, testimony and victims around the world in numerous jurisdictions are more difficult and time-consuming to prosecute, not because they are any less justciable rather than simply due to their scope and far-reaching implications.
Manning engaged in espionage, a crime of particular relevance to the military and which is especially aggravated when done in a uniform, but in this case he was spying for a private business (Wikileaks) so some of the established procedures in dealing with rival powers can't be analogized. The law contemplates "industrial espionage" (the disclosure of proprietary information of some business to a competitor) but here we have government information provided to a business, and unlike the typical "industrial spy" rather than some corporate figure revealing confidential records its a member of the military providing classified documents.
Then there's this internet dimension which magnifies the impact of Manning's crime. This is an emerging concern of evolving consideration where laws are changing, military law is also developing in this area. Issues of privacy, liability and protections for confidentiality are all implicated. The prosecution must be concerned with not limiting a medium of growing global importance, while taking into account its magnifying effects.
So be patient, Manning will get tried, its a complicated case, all the evidence hasn't been gathered, interactive elements are at issue, participants involved need also be brought to justice, the military doesn't have jurisdiction over everyone, all the facts aren't known, and ultimately Manning can't dispose of his time anyway, it belongs to the army since he enlisted.
He joined the U.S. Military. I would never be in his shoes, cuz I know what it means. You put on that uniform, you had better believe in it! Look Zeebadee, I do not know all the facts, because it includes the government, military, internet and all the crazy know it alls. I am far from knowing!! I know, once you put on that uniform, do it! Here is a scenario for ya, what if Manning is a wannabe whacko?Serious stuff, huh?
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