Feel Safer? Think Again

[RickSp]

While the US's Iraq survey group of 1,400 speciailists scoured Iraq for WMD and spent an estimate $1 billion dollars, nobody in the US military bothered to guard Saddam's conventional weapons stockpiles.

The NY Times reported this morning that 384 tons of the most powerful non-nuclear explosives known to man, HMX and RDX, have disappeared from a miltiary depot in Iraq. Less than one pound of these explosives is thought to have brought down PAn Am 103 over Lockerbee.

The huge facility, called Al Qaqaa, was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Sunday. United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished sometime after the American-led invasion last year.
.....

The International Atomic Energy Agency publicly warned about the danger of these explosives before the war, and after the invasion it specifically told United States officials about the need to keep the explosives secured, European diplomats said in interviews last week. Administration officials say they cannot explain why the explosives were not safeguarded, beyond the fact that the occupation force was overwhelmed by the amount of munitions they found throughout the country.

Huge Cache of Explosives Vanished From Site in Iraq

So bottom line, highly dangeous explosives which Saddam kept under lock and key have now been turned over to terrorists as a result of the US invasion of Iraq. Saddam didn't turn over the explosives to terrorists. We did.

Do you feel safer?

[ACause]

Oh bullshit...the entire country is one huge arms cache, every mother's son has a damn AK..we have neither the time nor the resources to guard every conceivable way of obtaining arms and ammo...at present we are still trying to pacify the Sunni Triangle...that particular ammo depot will no doubt be dealt with as time allows...we just can't blow it in place...it'll have to be done piecemeal over a long period of time.

[ACause]

Oh...and one other thing..bout your bit bout W begins with Dubya..better that then K for Kerry which also stands for Knuckle under

[bishop]

good thing we secured the oil wells though...

but hey, it's no fun unless there's the risk of getting blown up while driving down a road in your unarmored humvee... right?

[ACause]

Originally posted by bishop,
good thing we secured the oil wells though...

but hey, it's no fun unless there's the risk of getting blown up while driving down a road in your unarmored humvee... right?

Yeah..and if we hadn't secured the Oil Wells..two things would have happened...(1)The Iraqis would have blown them just like they did in Kuwait over a decade ago...then the liberals would be screaming bloody murder as to the ecological impact, and that the Administration didn't care bout the enviroment....and (2)If they did blow the wells..just where do you think the Iraq government as going to get it's capital necessary to rebuild itself..like it or not...Oil is all the Iraqis have to barter with.

And the military has been increasingly adapting it's methods..including massive overhaul of transports thank you....that's part of the 87 billion that Bush wanted that Kerry voted against...imagine that..Kerry was gone from 76% of the votes in his committees..and still had the gall to deny our troops the ability to fight in Iraq AFTER he voted for the war.

[bishop]

the 87 billion out of which 90% hasn't even been spent!!!

heads up their asses my man.. and, do you know why kerry voted against that particular version of the bill? hint: it had to do with giving gifts to companies that have been cheating the taxpayers, as well as grants instead of loans..


i don't have a problem with the fact that we secured the wells... but too bad those were the ONLY sites that we did secure..

again, it's no fun unless there's the risk of getting blown up while driving down a road in your unarmored humvee... gotta make it a little challenging for our young people.

[RickSp]

ACause, I know this is hopeless, but in case you didn't notice, the Iraqi oil industry still isn't really functioning because of repeated attacks on pipelines and pumping facilities. Seems the insurgents have lots of explosives on hand. Wonder where they got those?

And if it hasn't sunk in, as I'm sure it hasn't, HMX and RDX are terribly powerful explosives and easy to conceal and transport. If smuggled across borders they could bring down buildings and worse. And now we know for sure that the insurgents have tons of the stuff.

[ACause]

On the contrary...it is functioning...but with repeated attacks it is not up to full speed...once the security issue is resolved full production will continue...and one can't pay for full production without the capital right?...

I'm well aware of the arms potential the insurgents have...as for where they got those explosives it's a moot question I realize why you asked it..but you seem to neglect to realize that a majority of the country was full of arms caches..hell..the Iraqis during the war hid ammo in hospitals and schools for cryin out loud..we simply could not secure, tag, and demo every conceivable piece of ordinance the Iraqis had all the while trying to pacify the region..

You guys have GOT to give us the time and means by which to do the job right..or else..if we just up and leave...the Administration will then get blamed for whatever happens then too...damned if he does.damned if he don't.

[Evil Baby]

Originally posted by ACause,
Oh bullshit...the entire country is one huge arms cache, every mother's son has a damn AK..we have neither the time nor the resources to guard every conceivable way of obtaining arms and ammo...at present we are still trying to pacify the Sunni Triangle...that particular ammo depot will no doubt be dealt with as time allows...we just can't blow it in place...it'll have to be done piecemeal over a long period of time.

Dude, this is 384 tonnes. Not exactally soem weapons cache you just overlook. The U.S. military are known about this site in 91. Even if the U.S. didnt' have the man power to protect this bunker, they should have at the very least blown up the bunker or even possible transport this material to a secure U.S. site or even out of country. There is no other way to look at this other then a huge failure.

[ACause]

Originally posted by Evil Baby,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Evil Baby,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-ACause,
Oh bullshit...the entire country is one huge arms cache, every mother&#39;s son has a damn AK..we have neither the time nor the resources to guard every conceivable way of obtaining arms and ammo...at present we are still trying to pacify the Sunni Triangle...that particular ammo depot will no doubt be dealt with as time allows...we just can&#39;t blow it in place...it&#39;ll have to be done piecemeal over a long period of time.

Dude, this is 384 tonnes. Not exactally soem weapons cache you just overlook. The U.S. military are known about this site in 91. Even if the U.S. didnt&#39; have the man power to protect this bunker, they should have at the very least blown up the bunker or even possible transport this material to a secure U.S. site or even out of country. There is no other way to look at this other then a huge failure.[/b][/quote]

Never said it wasn&#39;t a blunder...and it wasn&#39;t just some bunker, it&#39;s a complex..a huge complex..to detonate in place would almost certainly cause collateral damage to either people or property adjacent to the facility..

No war is run perfect..and I swear that is what some of you people expect?...That no civilians would get hurt..that no property that wasn&#39;t directly related to combat be destroyed..that no mistakes wouldn&#39;t occur, that no prisoners might get tortured, abuse...etc...listen...this war has been so micromanaged it&#39;s unbelievable..I thought my generation of vets had it bad in Vietnam with our pilots having to radio back to MACV-Saigon for clearance to unload their ordinance.....this generation of military personnel I feel so sorry for..with their every move..their every conduct subject to scrutiny..it&#39;s a wonder why they&#39;d ever pick up a weapon and shoot at the enemy for fear of hitting a civilian.

[bishop]

but you seem to neglect to realize that a majority of the country was full of arms caches..hell..the Iraqis during the war hid ammo in hospitals and schools for cryin out loud..we simply could not secure, tag, and demo every conceivable piece of ordinance the Iraqis had all the while trying to pacify the region..

except in this case, we knew where they were stored.. the iaea had the place under surveillance before we initiated the war. these weapons were not hidden, so your point is moot.

No war is run perfect..and I swear that is what some of you people expect?...

the fact that this arrogant administration NEVER accepts responsibility for anything that goes wrong is a strong reason for the constant criticism they receive. when you think your shit doesn&#39;t stink, usually people tend to let you know that it does.

[ACause]

Honest criticism I can expect from arm-chair generals...but no battle plan survives contact with the enemy it&#39;s and age-old adage.....has the military, the Pentagon, the Adminstration made mistakes..sure...but I&#39;d venture they&#39;d make less if they didn&#39;t have to worry bout someone who isn&#39;t even in-country with them judging them.