Love and money

[castille]

Originally posted by syracusa,
Again, sweet old sweeping statements, stereotypes and generalization - in the castille tradition and the "Cindarella" story.

Hate to break it to you, but in reality it doesn't quite play out that way.

Thats because you live in America, where everyone puts their personal pleasure ahead of their duty and responsibility.

In traditional countries like yours, where divorce is still a no-no, the poor party...well, she/he learns to put up with all that. But harmony and happiness? Less likely.

Like I said, when you are poor and do not possess the ability to make your fortune, your children are your hope. Would you rather doom your children to a generation of starvation when you could give them a better life, at the expense of a little "love"? (and does love matter if you are living in poverty?)

The most harmony and happiness comes out of marriages where both are rich.

Not necessarily. Money doesn't make one happy.

[Samildanach]

My parents were pretty happy and they both started out with nothing, both ended up pretty well off though, cause they stuck together during the hard times and made the most of the opportunities they had. I think there is a lot to be said for an equal partnership and I agree with Castille, money definitely does not make one happy, its a nice add on if anything, an enhancer if you will, kind of like a nice bottle of wine with the meal. :)

[syracusa]

I (partially) agree with both you casttile and samildanach.

Well...yes, for someone very poor, if you get an opportunity to marry a better-off person, it is understandable how you would want to do it, it is very tempting. As castille said, what's a little "love" for the promise of a secure future? I agree.

However, what I said is that the "better-off" person most of the times turns out to be demanding and controlling in the relationship. It is exactly because he(she..less often) KNOWS that he saved you from a sucky life and you went ahead and said yes with a big grin on your face...that he now believes you owe him big.
And even in marriages power games exist, people have egos, conflicts appear....and then the balance of power is too tilted in one direction, making the other one miserable as heck.

Or are you talking about marriages where the poor female just shuts up, is always submissive and does what she's told - wearing an eternal grateful smile on her face for having been rescued from sucky poverty?
If yes - then maybe.
But last time I checked with the psychologists, self-effacing people were not necessarily the happiest ones.

Samildanach - yes there is something to be said about equal partnership. Actually, just the other day I was checking an article in a scientific journal about "MEDS" marriages. (Marriages of equally dependent spouses).

They have a lower divorce rate than many other types of couples (incentives for both to stick with the plan&#33 but their rate is still not as low as the rate of well-off / rich couples. But like you said, just because you don't divorce does not mean you are happy.

You would be surprised what the rich couples are willing to put up with in their marriages only to preserve appearances, the estate inctact, not to have to divide it, or lose some economic and social advanatges etc. There are too many things at stake when they make such alliances, too much to lose via divorce. Think about how JFK was cheating on Jackie Kennedy like mad...and she never flinched, although she knew about it? What about Hillary? You learn to swallow the bitter pill or else.

In fact, the lowest divorce rate is the divorce rate of the rich (save Hollywood, which is a special case) and the highest is that of the poor (they've got almost nothing to lose when they divorce).

Money is the best marriage stabilizer...as in "not get a divorce" - scientifically established!

But does that mean they are happy and really love each other, whatever "love" is? That's another story.
Again...like you said...happiness comes from commitment, mutual respect, genuine affection and pulling together for the well-being of the family.

[Lava]

Originally posted by syracusa,
However, what I said is that the "better-off" person most of the times turns out to be demanding and controlling in the relationship. It is exactly because he(she..less often) KNOWS that he saved you from a sucky life and you went ahead and said yes with a big grin on your face...that he now believes you owe him big.

Going in with that attitude is pretty much dooming it to failure I would think. Love is more about giving than demanding.

Lava

[bishop]

would a proper interpretation of this question be something like a billionaire marrying someone living in the projects?

i've never seen such an example, although i'm sure something like that had to have happened at least once.. rich people come in different varieties - not all of them were born into wealth. take bill clinton for example. and likewise, some rich people have become very, very poor. take a gambler, or someone who loves to invest on margin.

for people born into wealth/poverty, i'd say that that the chances of a successful marriage with a member of the opposite extreme are poor.. but, i also realize that there are shades of grey that make the situation a bit more dynamic than what seems to be discussed here. for most people, wealth/poverty are fluid realities that can change over time; they are not fixed.

[syracusa]

True.

[castille]

I would imagine that personality is more important to a marriage than money.

After all, money is an object, but personality is human. Bill Gates marrying Miss Ethiopia can succeed if both of their personalities are compatable.

I know one couple - the husband owns at least 100 investment properties and runs his own oil company, while the wife came from a rural family who were lucky to have food. The husband is the breadwinner, while the wife provided emotional support and looked after the kids.

They are very happy. The oil man gets a source of human companionship in the unemotional world of oil drilling (try spending a month on an oil rig&#33, the wife gets a secure future for her kids with a rich husband.


On the other hand, if Bill Gates and Martha Stewart had conflicting personalities, they'd still be unhappy.

[syracusa]

Originally posted by castille,
I would imagine that personality is more important to a marriage than money.

After all, money is an object, but personality is human. Bill Gates marrying Miss Ethiopia can succeed if both of their personalities are compatable.

I know one couple - the husband owns at least 100 investment properties and runs his own oil company, while the wife came from a rural family who were lucky to have food. The husband is the breadwinner, while the wife provided emotional support and looked after the kids.

They are very happy. The oil man gets a source of human companionship in the unemotional world of oil drilling (try spending a month on an oil rig&#33, the wife gets a secure future for her kids with a rich husband.

On the other hand, if Bill Gates and Martha Stewart had conflicting personalities, they'd still be unhappy.

You know the functionalist THEORY. Male bread-winnner does this, female nurturer does that, everybody happy - power, economic inequality not an issue.

While the theory sounds nice, the statistical reality shows something different.
For one thing, your oil guy - in the real world - was standing a very low chance to end up with a woman coming from a family where she barely had a roof over her head. That he did anyway - that's another story. But chances for this kind of thing to happen are low in general.

In real life, money begets money. "Good families" live in their own world, with establishments (such as neighborhods, clubs, schools, etc) designed to act as "good breeding" grounds and gate keepers.

No matter how much we like to idealize the "ideal situation" - Succesful Man marries Poor-but-oh-so-Cindarella-woman - things don't work like this in real life.Besides there's no shortage of hot women among the rich families, on the contrary ...you are more likely to find hot women in well-to-do families than in those that come from poverty.

Beauty itsef has a lot to do with economics, with family history etc (and I am not talking about plastic surgery).

And if people still believe that the US is that perfectly "classless" society, impeccable meritocracy... where the smartest and the hardest-working guy simply gets the most beautiful girl...they are naive, to say in the least.

[Lava]

Welcome back.

Lava

[castille]

Originally posted by syracusa,
You know the functionalist THEORY.

No, I see it in ACTION. You should know by now I'm the last person in the world to talk about theories.

While the theory sounds nice, the statistical reality shows something different.

What statistics? Objective statistics, or the ones people pull out of their ass to prove a point?

In real life, money begets money. "Good families" live in their own world, with establishments (such as neighborhods, clubs, schools, etc) designed to act as "good breeding" grounds and gate keepers.

Does this explain why daughters of "good families" like to go out with sons of "bad families"?

Beauty itsef has a lot to do with economics, with family history etc (and I am not talking about plastic surgery).

Erm right....so rich people are more beautiful than poor people? Funny, Paris Hilton is a pretty ugly chick - I've seen more hotter sweatshop workers in Hong Kong than Miss Hilton.

And if people still believe that the US is that perfectly "classless" society, impeccable meritocracy... where the smartest and the hardest-working guy simply gets the most beautiful girl...they are naive, to say in the least.

No, the smartest, hardest-working guy is boring. Its more about the coolest, hottest guy who gets the girl.

[Lava]

> No, the smartest, hardest-working guy is boring. Its more about the coolest, hottest guy who gets the girl.


How do they manage to be both cool and hot at the same time? :)


Lava

[syracusa]

This is a pretty stupid conversation if we get to DEBATE whether most rich guys end up with women from well-off families or not.
This is not a debatable thing, it is a FACT. It has been proven over and over again.
Just because, castille, you would like things to be different, does not make them so.

Don't ask me to bring you statistcis, on this issue they are literally everywhere, ask any sociologist or social scientist out there and they would tell you the same thing.

Rich, well-off, money-guys typically marry women from pretty well-off families as well.