That's where the libertarians and I disagree. Government isn't the problem, it's the people who make government happen.
Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson actually detested the idea of the corporation. What's strange about Libhater and the other Teabaggers is that they are in support of big business, even though the original Boston Tea Party was held by liberals in opposition to multinational corporations.
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
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Ummmm.... not exactly. Yes, they were flaming liberals, but they had no problems with the British East India Company. It was the 1773 Tea Act passed by Parliament they had a problem with.Quote by: Dan74
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I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it
In other words, they had a problem with taxes. I do love revisionist history. Though many policies of the Founders were definitely anti-establishment and liberal, the boston tea party wasn't one of them.
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
-- Stephen Crane
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Oh, it was definitely anti-establishment and liberal, AG. Back then, the whole concept of representative democracy was an extremely liberal idea. The establishment being, in their case, the British Crown and Parliament, not the East India Trading Company as Dan74 was suggesting, although on further review, it turns out Dan was more right than wrong.
The Tea Act of '73 actually never imposed new taxes in the colonies, but was intended to "prop up the East India Company which was floundering financially and burdened with eighteen million pounds of unsold tea. This tea was to be shipped directly to the colonies, and sold at a bargain price. The Townshend Duties were still in place, however, and the radical leaders in America found reason to believe that this act was a maneuver to buy popular support for the taxes already in force. The direct sale of tea, via British agents, would also have undercut the business of local merchants"
My apologies to Dan.
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I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
Excuse me, I believe I misspoke. By 'liberal', I meant economically liberal, taking the modern version of the term. As for the Tea Act, the protests weren't centered on fighting the East India Company, but rather because we didn't like the notion of taxation without fair representation in Parliament. We felt like second-class citizens to those in England. Thus, we protested.
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
-- Stephen Crane
Right, they were not against taxation, they were against taxes that they had no right to vote for that served the purpose of supporting a huge corporation against their own interests. Bad East India Company! Bad Monarchy for denying citizens equal access to representation! Not, I repeat NOT, Bad taxes!
All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard -
Tell me, could that be you?
John Kay
"Taxation without representation" is a term that's used very loosely. The patriots didn't even want representation.
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
Well, they most certainly did not want to be swallowed up within the existing system in England. That was their own little hypocritical failing. But, it ain't like they established a government here that did not respect the ideal of representative government. They didn't want representation in England because they knew it would never be effective in representing their interests.
All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard -
Tell me, could that be you?
John Kay
LOL...could you be any more offensive?
HEIL!!!
Incorrect. They were against the idea of a big corporation, but back then such an entity would only be supported and useful to a large government like Britian at the time.That's where the libertarians and I disagree. Government isn't the problem, it's the people who make government happen.
Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson actually detested the idea of the corporation. What's strange about Libhater and the other Teabaggers is that they are in support of big business, even though the original Boston Tea Party was held by liberals in opposition to multinational corporations.
Logically then, the Founding Fathers then thought that if they ended big government, they could then also end big business.
Double whammy, two down, one stone.
Unfortunately, in today's global economy, the existence of a multi-national corporation does not require the support of government, outside of the basic laws of upholding property rights. etc.
Which mean that, in my view, there are two ways to once again pare down the influence of authority- accept an increase in governmantel power for a compounding decrease of the corporation, or utterly destroy the state and end the property rights on which corporations stand.
Or just leave things the way they are. Which is not acceptable, IMO.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
– George Bernard Shaw
I'm not saying that I like big government, I'm just saying that government isn't what the problem is, though many conservatives would like it that way. Government gives us many great things: public water systems, public education, public libraries, public parks, public roads, and public health insurance in the near future hopefully.
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
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