Study: Wars could cost $4 trillion to $6 trillion

[grandpa]

The authors of the book "The $3 Trillion War" noted in a conference call on Wednesday that when they first released their findings two years ago, the estimates were widely criticized as being too high. Now, the researchers believe they may have been too low.
Study: Wars could cost $4 trillion to $6 trillion - Stripes Central - Stripes

Too low? Wow!

Grandpa h.

[barts]

Too low? Wow!

Grandpa h.

American wars should be subject to PAYGO requirements. If American Presidents--Commanders in Chief--had to fund wars from the current monies either through budget cuts or tax increases, you can be sure Americans would be less blood thirsty.

Also, I'd like to see the draft reinstated so that the burden of the dying not only was shared equally by Americans of all classes, but also so that the American military was no so populated by people who enjoy the notion of killing and injuring people and blowing things up.

[NoJingoLingo]

American wars should be subject to PAYGO requirements. If American Presidents--Commanders in Chief--had to fund wars from the current monies either through budget cuts or tax increases, you can be sure Americans would be less blood thirsty.

Also, I'd like to see the draft reinstated so that the burden of the dying not only was shared equally by Americans of all classes, but also so that the American military was no so populated by people who enjoy the notion of killing and injuring people and blowing things up.

Both of those things would be a step in the right direction but unfortunately, the rich own Congress and they like wars because it provides opportunity for big profits and they don't want their kids going to fight. Therefore, we won't see the draft nor paygo for wars.

[lsbskins1]

I sympathize with the intentions, but there ain't no way in hell that the idea of paygo war is practical. Name me a war in history that did not cause the nations fighting it to incur debt. You might as well say that to avoid another housing crash, we should require that no one gets to purchase a home on credit.

I do realize that the anarchists among us would love nothing more than to be able to cripple government in such a fashion, and the super idealists on the left might say that anything that would make war "impossible" is the whole idea, but still...realistic solutions are better than idealistic/dogmatic ones.

[barts]

I sympathize with the intentions, but there ain't no way in hell that the idea of paygo war is practical. Name me a war in history that did not cause the nations fighting it to incur debt. You might as well say that to avoid another housing crash, we should require that no one gets to purchase a home on credit.

I do realize that the anarchists among us would love nothing more than to be able to cripple government in such a fashion, and the super idealists on the left might say that anything that would make war "impossible" is the whole idea, but still...realistic solutions are better than idealistic/dogmatic ones.

In principle I agree with you but only if a war was truly necessary as a matter of national defense, not political opportunism. The problem is that the US has become a perpetual war-mongering machine, engaging illegally in conflicts, and making war on countries that do not, in fact, threaten its national security. The costs of the war are hidden from Americans by borrowing money to pay for them in their entirety rather than raising taxes at all. In fact, Bush II went to war in both Iraq and Afghanistan and implemented tax cuts; that is insane.

Going to war should be difficult, not easy. The US seems to be the most war-mongering country in the world, being engaged it seems in endless wars, all of its own choosing. This despite the fact that no countries pose and existential threat to the US.

[lsbskins1]

In principle I agree with you but only if a war was truly necessary as a matter of national defense, not political opportunism. The problem is that the US has become a perpetual war-mongering machine, engaging illegally in conflicts, and making war on countries that do not, in fact, threaten its national security. The costs of the war are hidden from Americans by borrowing money to pay for them in their entirety rather than raising taxes at all. In fact, Bush II went to war in both Iraq and Afghanistan and implemented tax cuts; that is insane.

Going to war should be difficult, not easy. The US seems to be the most war-mongering country in the world, being engaged it seems in endless wars, all of its own choosing. This despite the fact that no countries pose and existential threat to the US.

I keep further outing myself as the centrist I truly am. I know some people think I am a communist or a an America hating pacifist or some other such nonsense. Two things, in reality, drive my politics; the true and the possible. It is true that the US, since WW II, has involved itself in conflicts that have been useless wastes of our blood and treasure and something needs to be done. It is possible to to fix it through some sort of legislative action that would answer both the need for almost instant response times in the modern world, while still finding some way to make it much more difficult to sustain war when it becomes quite plain it is bad policy. I would think some solution along the lines of allowing the President to respond to immediate threats, but anything lasting more than 3 months requires 2/3 majorities to continue might be a plausible solution. We would all be speaking German and there would be no Jews left on the planet if paygo rules existed during WW II.

[barts]

We would all be speaking German and there would be no Jews left on the planet if paygo rules existed during WW II.

Actually, the United States was never at risk during WWII. The Soviet Union would have defeated the Germans. The Allies effort only involved about 1/3 of German forces. And the Japanese never had the capacity to invade mainland America. At worst, they may have taken Hawaii. The US has never been at risk--and is still not at risk--of invasion from a European or Asian country.

[lsbskins1]

Actually, the United States was never at risk during WWII. The Soviet Union would have defeated the Germans. The Allies effort only involved about 1/3 of German forces. And the Japanese never had the capacity to invade mainland America. At worst, they may have taken Hawaii. The US has never been at risk--and is still not at risk--of invasion from a European or Asian country.

The Russians would have been fucked without our industrial capacity. The English would have been fucked without our industrial capacity. We put that capacity on line in a debt generating environment. If we would have NOT entered the war to avoid debt, the Russians would have pretty much continued to be cannon fodder. The Russians gave their blood, we gave our treasure and together, we won. If we had denied that crucial element to the victorious mix, the Nazis would have likely prevailed. If they had prevailed, we would have been returned to a world of colonial exploitation for who knows how many more years, and the US's economic dominance would have been eradicated. The point is not whether or not the Germans would have attempted to invade, the point is that they would have not needed to even make the attempt. Their resultant economic dominance would have relegated us to ineffectual subservience and maybe German would have begun to supplant English as the "lingua franca" of the world.

[barts]

The Russians would have been fucked without our industrial capacity. The English would have been fucked without our industrial capacity. We put that capacity on line in a debt generating environment. If we would have NOT entered the war to avoid debt, the Russians would have pretty much continued to be cannon fodder. The Russians gave their blood, we gave our treasure and together, we won. If we had denied that crucial element to the victorious mix, the Nazis would have likely prevailed. If they had prevailed, we would have been returned to a world of colonial exploitation for who knows how many more years, and the US's economic dominance would have been eradicated. The point is not whether or not the Germans would have attempted to invade, the point is that they would have not needed to even make the attempt. Their resultant economic dominance would have relegated us to ineffectual subservience and maybe German would have begun to supplant English as the "lingua franca" of the world.

Your analysis of the role of the various actors in WWII is substantially correct. Not that I would wish that "our side" had lost WWII, but I'm not convinced that relegating the US to "ineffectual subservience" would not have been a good thing. The US has often abused, in my view, its world dominance.

[lsbskins1]

Your analysis of the role of the various actors in WWII is substantially correct. Not that I would wish that "our side" had lost WWII, but I'm not convinced that relegating the US to "ineffectual subservience" would not have been a good thing. The US has often abused, in my view, its world dominance.

Then you guys need to get with the EU program across the pond. Kick our ass, make us learn what it means to not be the big bully on the block who always gets its way. Americans themselves are fundamentally good people. Our government sometimes makes us look like assholes. But we aren't assholes, we are mostly fat, satisfied, and complacent but good at heart. There are, of course, notable exceptions.

[barts]

Americans themselves are fundamentally good people.

So true. Would that US politicians actually represented the views and aspirations of ordinary Americans rather than the unholy oligarchy of the uber-rich, corporations, and what Eisenhower dubbed "the military-industrial complex" that funds their campaigns and gives them sinecures after they leave office.

[Philip Lu]

Actually, the United States was never at risk during WWII. The Soviet Union would have defeated the Germans. The Allies effort only involved about 1/3 of German forces. And the Japanese never had the capacity to invade mainland America. At worst, they may have taken Hawaii. The US has never been at risk--and is still not at risk--of invasion from a European or Asian country.

ever since WWII, you mean.