What makes you atheists so sure there isn't a God? Any Christian input?

[arX]

That's athiest downfall they must see everything.you can't prove that air exist.you can't see it.you can't touch it.you can't taste it.

Blimey, this 18th century argument is getting popular on this board. How alarming.

you have [education] and [know] that air is there.

Corrected.

[Angry Citizen]

God has always existed.science proves that the universe didn't always exist.you are now arguing with science.I agree that the big bang happened.but a logical person unlike yourself would ask what started the big bang. There's a 1% chance it happened out of nothing so a greater being must of made it happen.think about it.

So first it's proven that the universe is finite, then there's a "1% chance it isn't." Nonsense. Utter nonsense. You also claim that God, hitherto unevidenced by anything, possesses a quality which you are unwilling to ascribe to the universe itself. A logical person like myself would indeed ask what 'started' the Big Bang. An illogical person such as yourself would then fill in that gap with a being who will never be evidenced -- ever.

Science doesn't know anything about the pre-Big Bang era. We're even missing 10^-42 seconds of time after the Big Bang. To sit there and distort science like that only proves your own ignorance and misunderstanding. But then, that's a common thread with theists.

[Angry Citizen]

That's athiest downfall they must see everything.you can't prove that air exist.you can't see it.you can't touch it.you can't taste it.you have faith and believe that air is there.everyone relies on faith.you have to.

Yes we can. We have mass spectrometers and beautiful kinetic energy to discern the existence of what you call 'air'. We can touch it, by the way... Silly theist.

[Dodds]

Prove yourself right... make a possible argument towards matter always existing.

Going back to the original question of the thread, I believe I have a valid argument when stating that something had to cause the formation of matter. I agree with a prior post that it would be illogical to emphatically state the entity that created the universe is God in monotheistic and Christian terms. I contend that is logical, however, to state that something beyond our realm of understanding and reasoning created matter, something SUPERnatural, an entity that takes the form of the common perception of an absolute god.

I dont have to. There is already a law that proves me right.

Conservation of energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like I said prove me wrong.

[Angry Citizen]

I believe I have a valid argument when stating that something had to cause the formation of matter. I agree with a prior post that it would be illogical to emphatically state the entity that created the universe is God in monotheistic and Christian terms. I contend that is logical, however, to state that something beyond our realm of understanding and reasoning created matter, something SUPERnatural, an entity that takes the form of the common perception of an absolute god.

Nonsense. It is logical to say that something beyond our current understanding began the Big Bang. Science does not have all the answers to the gaps. But attempting to fill it with God is bound for failure -- especially if we do determine that a brane collision started our whole universe. Where will God run to next? The branes themselves?

[Lamna nasus]

... especially if we do determine that a brane collision started our whole universe. Where will God run to next? The branes themselves?

Yup.. depressing isn't it...

[ensayne]

God has always existed.science proves that the universe didn't always exist.you are now arguing with science.I agree that the big bang happened.but a logical person unlike yourself would ask what started the big bang. There's a 1% chance it happened out of nothing so a greater being must of made it happen.think about it.

Think about it, if there is a God, where did he come from? What's interesting to me is you don't realize that infinite regression and the beginning of time and space are both relatively incomprehensible, don't you think?

[taesith]

Think about it, if there is a God, where did he come from? What's interesting to me is you don't realize that infinite regression and the beginning of time and space are both relatively incomprehensible, don't you think?

This is a common argument I make when talking with theists. Why is it OK for a theist to say, "The universe was created by God and God always existed - nothing created God," but I cannot say, "Well then, why could we not just do away with God and say the universe (in one form or another) has always existed - nothing created the universe?"

I'm not arguing this point by the way, nor do I believe it - my point is, that theist cannot accept a view that does not require a god. No matter how far back we go or how much understanding we can achieve, a theist will always find a way to make God responsible.

[RickSp]

I'm not arguing this point, by the way, nor do I believe it - my point is, that theist cannot accept a view that does not require a god. No matter how far back we go or how much understanding we can achieve, a theist will always find a way to make God responsible.

If gets very difficult to reconcile the personal god of the three Semitic religions with the distant god of the "first cause" receding off someplace into infinity.

[minorwork]

Prove yourself right... make a possible argument towards matter always existing.

Going back to the original question of the thread, I believe I have a valid argument when stating that something had to cause the formation of matter. I agree with a prior post that it would be illogical to emphatically state the entity that created the universe is God in monotheistic and Christian terms. I contend that is logical, however, to state that something beyond our realm of understanding and reasoning created matter, something SUPERnatural, an entity that takes the form of the common perception of an absolute god.

My favorite creator is consciousness.

This is a common argument I make when talking with theists. Why is it OK for a theist to say, "The universe was created by God and God always existed - nothing created God," but I cannot say, "Well then, why could we not just do away with God and say the universe (in one form or another) has always existed - nothing created the universe?"

I'm not arguing this point by the way, nor do I believe it - my point is, that theist cannot accept a view that does not require a god. No matter how far back we go or how much understanding we can achieve, a theist will always find a way to make God responsible.

Without consciousness there is nothing for any of us. Consciousness is God. Doesn't seem a theistic position to me. More of a primary foundation from which to observe. Sure, most theists go ape shit over the ramifications of an internal source of consciousness claiming a personal relationship with Jesus, er, themselves and go to great lengths to veil from others (if not themselves) the obviousness of the significance of their own consciousness as the creator, God itself.

If gets very difficult to reconcile the personal god of the three Semitic religions with the distant god of the "first cause" receding off someplace into infinity.

Infinite regression is a natural consequence of the mind's inclination to measure things by breaking them apart into pieces. Theists deal with it their way, by stopping in the past postulating God, and solipsists stop the regression at its source, consciousness of the moment, with God. The God of consciousness. And that calls for a beer.

[DavidSupreme]

^ QFT - 100% absolutely the problem with religion. If someone wants to believe in whatever fancy fairy tale they choose, so be it. Waste your time, waste your money - go for it. But when those people are making rules for me and my family based on their wild fantasies, it becomes a problem. .

What about that person making rules for their children and family? Is that okey?
Does a person have the right to indoctrinate others with their false opinions (say belief "World is 6000 years old") whatever it is their offspring or kid on street?

[Peter]

Peter, you, like so many others are way too presumptuous. Where in the world did you get that silly idea that God wants to burn you in hell forever? Have you been listening to Jack Chick? And what's up with that "apple"? If you could discard all of your false beliefs about God and the Bible (don't judge either by His 'followers') and read the Bible (really read it) for the first time, you would find a lot of comfort in the realization that God doesn't want ANYONE to PERISH! Not one human being is going to burn in hell for eternity! That's a BIG LIE!

And forget about Adam...he'll be judged for his life, as will you. Still, even if you make Hitler look like a Boy Scout, you're not going to burn in hell forever.

Loser, I have zero interest in debating your extremely unique interpretation of an old book of myths. If you ever convince enough people of your point of view so that they become so much as a blip on the religious radar I'll take notice. Until then good luck with being the most intelligent person on the planet.