Genocide

[Sodfather]

Where is genocide brewing or actually ocurring in the world? When and in which country would you predict the next massive racial crime to occur? Are we too advanced and too involved in others' business to allow another Holocaust to slip by unnoticed?

[JohnLockeRocks]

I wish I could say we were too advanced to allow genocide, but I don't think we are--not as a planet, we aren't. Take a look at what's going on in Sudan: something like 30,000 killed! I still haven't figured out why. And no one seems to be doing anything to stop it. Is it because the people fighting are black? Beats me. I won't get into that one.

Or what about the Holocaust? The people who orchastrated that were German--GERMAN! One of the most civilized peoples on the planet fell into a twelve-year madness that wiped out 6,000,000 Jews and another 6,000,000 "undesirables". How in the hell does something like that happen? How could the land of Goethe and Martin Luther conceive of something so horrific? That madness ended fifty-nine years ago. That's not too long ago, folks.

History shows us many examples of otherwise reasonable individuals becoming bloodthirsty, faceless members of a mob. All you need to start a lynch mob is a charismatic leader in a desperate situation to say "Your suffering is THEIR fault!" Reason and wisdom counter the mob. Get enough people in your part of the world who are thoughtful and rational, and there won't be any genocide. But how?

[PatrickHenry]

60 Minutes tracked the story on Darfur tonite 10/10/2004.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/08/...ain648277.shtml

We’ve all been hearing about something horrible in the African country of Sudan. So, 60 Minutes decided to go there to find out what’s going on. What it found was evidence of a government-backed campaign to wipe out an entire race of people.

There are at least 50,000 dead, and a million on the run — facts that led the U.S. government last month to call what was happening genocide. Correspondent Scott Pelley reports. It started a year and a half ago in part of Sudan called Darfur. Rebels looking for a measure of freedom revolted against Sudan’s authoritarian Islamic government. The government apparently decided to end the revolt by attempting to wipe out all the native Africans in Darfur, essentially to clear the territory for the Arabs.

[Nono]

Originally posted by JohnLockeRocks
Take a look at what's going on in Sudan: something like 30,000 killed! I still haven't figured out why. And no one seems to be doing anything to stop it. Is it because the people fighting are black? Beats me. I won't get into that one.

Sudan -- a colonial construct, not a natural entity -- is in the process of getting over a marathon (40+-year) civil war pitting the Mulsim Arabs of the north (who hold state power) against the Christian/Animist blacks in the south (who don't). Overtones of genocide there, too, and something like 2 million killed.

A peace deal was struck a few years ago, but peace is far from assured. Meanwhile, the government in Khartoum isn't having any truck with any disobedience.

Darfur -- as big as the UK -- has Arabs in the north and... you guessed it. Drought has devastated Arab grazing lands and they've been encroaching on their black neighbours, who have longstanding grievances with Khartoum anyway. Result: rebellion by the blacks. In response, the gov. has armed and supported (with air force, etc.) Arab militias to kill/rape/burn the offending population. Many are huddling (and dying) in refugee camps, which also get attacked.

The UN Security Council is sitting on its hands. Russia sells arms to Khartoum and China is up to its chin in Sudanese oil. And the US says "Ain't it terrible, but we can't seem to reach a consensus here." (Whereas in the case of Iraq it simply gave the UN the finger and did what it wanted anyway.)

So, nobody has to do anything, which suits everybody perfectly. They're free to ignore the Genocide Convention. Nod and Wink.

As for Sudan's Arab neighbours, ain't it interesting that they're in a constant lather about Israeli treatment of Palestinians, but here you have an actual genocide and they look the other way.

[castille]

Rwanda. Most of the former genocidists in Rwanda were never prosecuted. In fact the UN, World Vision, and the people who donated money to Rwanda helped the genocidists "get a normal life again".

So we got a bunch of Tutsis (the evil capitalist pigs) and the Hutus (the poor oppressed peasants who rose up against the Tutsis and accidently killed 1 million of them) living next door to each other.

[Nono]

Originally posted by castille
The UN, World Vision, and the people who donated money to Rwanda helped the genocidists "get a normal life again".

Check your facts, castille. No one has done more to bring that about than the (Tutsi) Rwandan government itself. And so far it's an extraordinary success story.

Or would you prefer to see endless tit for tat?

[castille]

Umm....what Tutsi government? Do you mean the RPA, who recruited BOTH Tutsis and Hutus into their nation? Do you mean the same RPA who, despite the fact they deserve retribution, arrested hundreds of their own soldiers for minor crimes against civilians?

I do not claim the former RPA rebels are angels. But they have at least tried to put an end to terror, and are not racial supremicists.

Unfortunately, their attempts to bring the genocidists to some sort of war tribunal was blocked by the UN, who fell like baited fish for the Hutu Power propaganda. The irony of it is, the UN abandoned Rwanda in the first place.

The other irony is that Belgium, the nation responsible for causing this Hutu-Tutsi fraction, was one of the first to leave Rwanda to the genocide.

[Nono]

No, I mean the Rwandan government, placed in power by the victorious RPA. (And they sure have not been angels in the Congo, have they? And look at their stupid feuding with the Ugandans.)

Your other points are valid. But it's like you going on about European crimes against humanity, while forgetting that all this is an endlessly long human tradition.

Your Summer Palace, the other guy's Tibet, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

[castille]

Originally posted by Nono,
No, I mean the Rwandan government, placed in power by the victorious RPA. (And they sure have not been angels in the Congo, have they? And look at their stupid feuding with the Ugandans.)

No, but I find the new Rwandan government better than Hutu Power.

Besides, you were the first to point out this supremecy thing. All I said is that the past genocidaires of Rwanda have never been punished, and were in fact sheltered by the UN.