Jesus' last words.

[Diogenes]

i agree with alex the wise.

Whether Jesus was a man, an exaggerated man, or a imaginary character...there's no reason to assassinate his character...ie. calling him a liar...whatever he was according to what we know the character he presents is better than the character we present...

the problem is not with Jesus the man, or Jesus the character...the problem derives from what came after Jesus.

So...more to the point...instead of assassinating his character by saying he lied...the truth is that if anyone lied it was the people that came after him.

Let's take an example...

Alex was a good man, a decent man, an honest man
after Alex died people started telling rumors about Alex, bad rumors, like Alex hated blacks and wore pink undies
is this Alex's fault?

Sorry, but I don't think we should assassinate the character of great men...even if we ' suspect ' they have been exaggerated or fictionalized, there have been so few of them throughout history.

[Philip Lu]

Whether Jesus was a man, an exaggerated man, or a imaginary character...there's no reason to assassinate his character...ie. calling him a liar...whatever he was according to what we know the character he presents is better than the character we present...

the problem is not with Jesus the man, or Jesus the character...the problem derives from what came after Jesus.

So...more to the point...instead of assassinating his character by saying he lied...the truth is that if anyone lied it was the people that came after him.

Let's take an example...

Alex was a good man, a decent man, an honest man
after Alex died people started telling rumors about Alex, bad rumors, like Alex hated blacks and wore pink undies
is this Alex's fault?

Sorry, but I don't think we should assassinate the character of great men...even if we ' suspect ' they have been exaggerated or fictionalized, there have been so few of them throughout history.

Well, as I don't believe in God, I think it would be fair to me to call him a liar.

[yukonmuffin]

Seriously though, whenever a Christian, especially a "true Christian", denies that there are any inconsistencies in the Bible, this is the most clear-cut example to give.
According to the Bible, the correct answer is "D".

Actually, the "True Christian" response would be "Shut up and stop mocking that witch you do not understand you homer satanist monkey worshipper".
Very friendly people.

[Diogenes]

Well, as I don't believe in God, I think it would be fair to me to call him a liar.

Actually ' fair ' would be far beyond your reach...apparently.

[FriedrichSeneca]

This could easily be explained by saying that the witnesses heard him say them all. Or heard someone else mutter and confused it. Etc.

"Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene." John 19:5

I guess the Virgin Mary sneezed at the wrong moment, her sister had a bad ear infection and Mary Magdalene was too busy counting blood drops when it happened. Interestingly enough, it seems that they didn't take the time to compare and agree on what were the last words of the one they knew to be the Messiah before relating it to whoever were the writters of the gospels or to ask Jeez as he came back from the deads 3 days later. But of course the odds of mistaking a seemingly quiet "It is finished" with a loud, cried "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" are so high...

[Diogenes]

FS....you're assuming that they were the only ones near the cross, if there even was one...just because the story relates where the major players were doesn't mean that there wasn't several other incidental people around nearby.

Frankly...even if Jesus was nothing more than an attempt to gather Jews toward a cause or to rebel against the prevailing authority...even if he was conjured up out of someone's imagination...

I find this thread curiously petty.

The fact is eye-witnesses, or rather in this case ear-witnesses, even within the same distance can and do hear different things. Go ask a cop.

And these remembrances weren't recorded on the same day but many years later by people who weren't even present and didn't get their information from first-party sources...so the differences are not as ' out-standing ' as you imply.

[Angry Citizen]

so the differences are not as ' out-standing ' as you imply.

Kinda makes you wonder about the validity of the Bible, then, if Jesus' last words -- a remarkably important thing to remember -- can be recorded so differently. And this isn't even a case of "Why hast thou forsaken me, God?" versus "Father! Why hast thou forsaken me?", it's three completely different last words. One is a commendable attempt to willingly pass one's life into a higher power; another is Jesus crying out that God has forsaken him (...?); and still another implies that his death was something planned all along.

[Dave In Canada]

I believe a better example that the OP could have used was the account of Jesus conversing with God in the Garden of Gethsemane.

The account states that Jesus went off by himself and follows with a detailed account of a prayer to God that supposedly took place while the disciples were sleeping.

Unless there was a supernatural recording device hiding in the bushes and was later retrieved by the disciples how could anyone know if such an event occurred?

My humble opinion is that the detailed prayer is simply a complete fabrication.

[Jack]

I find this thread curiously petty.

If all Christians were reasonable and didn't insist the Bible was a tome channeling the exact words of a god I might agree. But when there are so many that insist the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of god, pointing out its inaccuracies and errors provides an argument against their claims.

More on this debate:
The Bible: The Inerrant Word of God | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site
Inerrancy and inspiration of the Bible | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Is the Bible inerrant -- free of error

[Diogenes]

If all Christians were reasonable and didn't insist the Bible was a tome channeling the exact words of a god I might agree. But when there are so many that insist the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of god, pointing out its inaccuracies and errors provides an argument against their claims.

As I said previously in this thread...infallibility is a church proposition not a scriptural one.

So the argument presented has nothing to do with Jesus or scripture, but rather upon the claims of the church.

[FriedrichSeneca]

As I said previously in this thread...infallibility is a church proposition not a scriptural one.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16

Interpret that the way you want.

[Angry Citizen]

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16

But what if THAT's the fallible part? Oh the Biblical paradoxes!