There are ways this could be used for bad or for good, and how it's used depends on who's running our government. Alas, we are not a full-blown proper democracy, so there's no telling whether or not such a thing would be used to our advantage or disadvantage. Even so, I think there are some very good reasons people should have ID. A lot of processes could be streamlined this way.
Opposing something without reference to the consequences is irrational. That doesn't mean you're wrong; it means you're not thinking clearly about what happens to be the right choice. Confront the practical side of your argument. I demand an example of what I am supposed to be afraid of.Quote by: Apeman81
If there is truly nothing to be afraid of then I humbly suggest that you're wrong and you should start disagreeing with me immediately.
The more you complain, the less I care about your problems.
Do you see this statement as being based in fear?
Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized
The tree of liberty is hungry. Let's feed it well in the next election.
Yes. What do you want me to say? Memories of British soldiers and law enforcement were very definitely part of the public consciousness. They knew exactly what they were trying to prevent.
The more you complain, the less I care about your problems.
Thus, acting to prevent such from happening in the future is acting out of fear, and not simply out of a sense of right and wrong in order to prevent further injustice.
You are free to hold that belief. I do not. I do not fear. I seek to prevent the need for fear. Which is exactly why the constitution contains the language it does; to promote peace. And why I support it.
Please tell me why you find it acceptable that our representatives should create for themselves the unfettered ability to include whatever data they should ever decide necessary in a federal ID that they may then share with whomever they choose?
I don’t care what you do or do not fear. Tell me why the federal government needs the latitude the current bill allows.
The tree of liberty is hungry. Let's feed it well in the next election.
You should go work for Exxon; your capacity to deny the incredibly obvious is astounding.
Then you'd think we're on the same page. That is what I want too. At base, I'm out to protect people.I seek to prevent the need for fear.
Ape, you've made a mistake. I'll forgive you because it was a couple of pages back. I believe I called it a "direct and unwarranted move towards fascism" and I am critiquing your decision making process, not the decision.Tell me why the federal government needs the latitude the current bill allows.
I said I would accept this if there was a compelling reason to do so. There is none. There is also at least one very, very good reason not to accept it. That's all I need. I am simply trying to protect people.
You can't make this kind of argument in a vacuum. What if there was a compelling reason? What if the anti-immigrant people were right?
The more you complain, the less I care about your problems.
[QUOTE=Thanatos;You can't make this kind of argument in a vacuum. What if there was a compelling reason? What if the anti-immigrant people were right?[/QUOTE]
That end would not justify the means.Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
The tree of liberty is hungry. Let's feed it well in the next election.
Hi,
that comes as no surprise to me. Here in Australia the federal government has been pushing for a national I.D. card for years.
Mal
No i see this statement as being irrelevant to the topic. your usual tactic.
The fear i saw was with your words
What information are you scared they will be imparting?The free citizen need only recognize that such an ID card, capable of imparting uncontrolled amounts of information to whomever the federal government deems worthy of gaining it, is an unnecessary invasion of one’s security in one’s papers.
What worries me is that different agencies will seek just the information they are concerned with instead of the whole picture. So maybe law enfrocement agents would pick up on ammonium nitrate purchases but not on the fact the buyer was a farmer who needed lots of fertilizer Its a simple example but I can imagine all sorts of situations where data could be misread. What happens when law enforcement knows someone buying tons of fertilizer is a member of some evangelical fundamentalist church? Nothing illegal one would want to hide, but data that taken together could set law enforcement on the wrong track.
Oh? What am I supposed to do when all possible choices lead to harming someone, stall and just crash like one of Asimov's robots? I'm not a robot and crashing would be counterproductive anyway.
You are forced to weigh relative harms. I'm not particularly afraid of the government so I could accept a national ID card. You're afraid of the government so you probably still wouldn't accept it.
You can deny that you feel fear but everyone except you sees it as a lie. You can deny that one life has less value than 10 lives but I'm fairly confident you'd come around if you ever had to make the choice. Get real, or else get ye hence into solipsism.
The more you complain, the less I care about your problems.
What would be the problem with the police going around and asking why they did. if nothing sinister or illegal is going on then no one is hurt.
would it not be better to find the answer that way than wait until some building is blown away and a few lives are lost.
This is incredible paranoia,. first the posters are scared of what the government might find out about them. but will not tell us what it is they are scared anybody will find out. and now we have the fear that the police will be doing midnight raids and carting innocent church goers off without a warrent.
I do not know whether to take this thread seriously or be amused at way the stories can grow from a small idea of a card with your picture on it.
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