The Constitution of the United States

[RickSp]

I am talking about the 1787 constitution. This constitution has been amended over the years, but it is still the constitution.

The 1787 Constitution is a historical document that has no applicability today, except for reference. The Constitutional Amendments are arguably more important than the original document which was explicitly racist and excluded the overwhelming majority of the current electorate.

[SoylentGreen]

I am talking about the 1787 constitution. This constitution has been amended over the years, but it is still the constitution.

So you put more faith in tradition than the ideal of freedom?

[dan4reason]

The 1787 Constitution is a historical document that has no applicability today, except for reference. The Constitutional Amendments are arguably more important than the original document which was explicitly racist and excluded the overwhelming majority of the current electorate.

The constitution today is different than it is then. The constitution should be respected because it is the people's bridle on the government. The constitution is a major force in preserving our liberties and should not be ignored.

[dan4reason]

So you put more faith in tradition than the ideal of freedom?

I do not care about tradition. I do not believe in following the constitution because it is old and respected. I believe in following it in the name of law and order. We should update our constitution to the times.

[dan4reason]

To add, the constitution was written specifically to establish and limit the power of the federal government to regulate only itself. It was not until the adoption of the 13th amendment that the federal government used its constitution to directly affect what the states could or could not do. This ability to interfere with state’s rights was made complete by the 14th amendment.

I think you have an error here which I once held. Here is a quote from the original constitution, article 1 section 10. "No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility." This is regulating the states.

[Nono]

Rights such as the right to bear arms, and the part about having a militia are some parts that are being forgotten.

Can you quote the relevant passage please?

[SoylentGreen]

The constitution today is different than it is then. The constitution should be respected because it is the people's bridle on the government. The constitution is a major force in preserving our liberties and should not be ignored.

Does it have a cape and wear it's underwear on the outside?

This is something i object to. The venerating of the constitution.

It is a piece of paper that has written on it a record of the general views of what people expect from the country they live in.
People preserve liberty, paper just records the event.

[Nono]

I agree that Americans tend to engage a bit too enthusiastically in veneration of a number of things. Their blasted flag, for example.

However, green, a constitution is a mission statement, a plan of action, a blueprint. If people don't at least respect that piece of paper, things are guaranteed to go awry.

How, pray, would you arrange things?? Everybody running around heavily armed spontaneously upholding their subjective hunch take on freedom?

Gimme a break.

[Apeman81]

dan4reason;642328]I think you have an error here which I once held. Here is a quote from the original constitution, article 1 section 10. "No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility." This is regulating the states.

In as much as the verbiage you call attention to does indeed prohibit the state’s ability to perform certain act, you are correct.

In my defense, this provision was indeed both included in, and necessary to, the formation of said union in establishing what powers were to be granted to it by the states, and the people. As such, it was not included to establish an ability of the union to control the states, but rather to codify which abilities the state were permitting the union control as part of the agreement to establish the union.

[Apeman81]

SoylentGreen;642330]Does it have a cape and wear it's underwear on the outside?

This is something i object to. The venerating of the constitution.

It is a piece of paper that has written on it a record of the general views of what people expect from the country they live in.
People preserve liberty, paper just records the event.

Perhaps you could expand your generic statements with example if what you would prefer.

[dan4reason]

Can you quote the relevant passage please?

I would be happy to. These are the parts about the militia and bearing arms.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed(2nd amendment)." The US was set up in such a way as to have a militia. Another quote is about congress' responsibilities. Here it is. "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;(article 1 section 8)."

Congress must provide for a militia and a militia was authorized by the constitution. We were given the rights to bear arms universally, no exceptions.

[dan4reason]

Does it have a cape and wear it's underwear on the outside?

This is something i object to. The venerating of the constitution.

It is a piece of paper that has written on it a record of the general views of what people expect from the country they live in.
People preserve liberty, paper just records the event.

It is a human weakness. We sometimes think objects more important than the things they represent. What makes the constitution so great are not the specific little rules on government. It is the fact that it is a document which attempts to hold the government's power in check to enable a free state. The constitution is one of the strongest forces for freedom we have.

The paper and ink of the constitution are not important. It is the ideas and laws of it.