You Really Gotta Read the Fine Print

[tengers]

The other day Goldman Sachs reported that their 1st Quarter earnings were $1.8 Billion. This sent their stocks and Wall Street up quite a bit. On another thread I pointed out the GS was actually responsible for roughly 5% of all activity on the NYSE at the end of the first quarter of 2009. Now it seems that Goldman Sachs did a double twist with a half gainer coming off the high board because their Fiscal Year used to end in November.

December 2008 was a "Bad Day at Black Rock" for most Financials, especially Goldman, Merrill, Bank of America and Citi. Goldman lost $1.3Billion in December 2008, but what they did was change their Financial year to end in December for this year, so they reported their $1.8 Billion in first quarter profits for 2009 and December 2008 went into a kind of Never Never Land. If they talked about the full 4 month period since their original November Closing, the story would have been quite different. Merrill, God Bless 'em, didn't say much at all about December when they were slipping B of A, their Mickey. This story was in the April 14th WSJ.

Anyway, the Fed also instructed the 19 Banks not to release the results of their stress tests individually, so it is getting harder and harder to figure out what the heck people say when they say it and what it means. This began in March of 2006 when the Fed decided to stop publishing M3, so no one could figure out what was going on with really large money movements in the country. Personally, I believe the country can handle the truth from our leaders, what we don't need are smoke screens.

[Cruella]

Do you have a link to any information on the report, tengers? I'm sure when a company changes it's year end, they have to account for changed months somewhere - all the US corporations I've worked for in the past have certainly had to, thanks to Sarbanes-Oxley regulations. I'd like to see the notes to the accounts.

[tengers]

This was in the WSJ April 14th as I indicated. I googled WSJ and Goldman Sachs and got a hit for you.

Goldman Sachs and Merrill: Did December Ever Happen? - Deal Journal - WSJ

Also, if you haven't seen it already, watch the performance of Susan Boyle on your Britain's Got Talent on You Tube. The woman is simply stunning. I posted this on Miscellaneous.

Perhaps the reason that they changed their reporting period is because Goldman was made to become a normal bank. But I think if you are going to be buying and selling 5% of the NYSE, the press should be a little more clear and so should GS.

[Cruella]

Companies can change their reporting period any time they like, and don't actually need to have a reason for it. There is usually a justification, but the reasons don't need, or have to, be made public. Organisations do it all the time.

[barnhardt2010]

Now it seems that Goldman Sachs did a double twist with a half gainer coming off the high board because their Fiscal Year used to end in November. ...

, but what they did was change their Financial year to end in December for this year, so they reported their $1.8 Billion in first quarter profits for 2009 and December 2008 went into a kind of Never Never Land. ....
Personally, I believe the country can handle the truth from our leaders, what we don't need are smoke screens.

Silly, Goldman Sachs became a bank lat year, REQUIRING them to switch to a calandar fiscal year.

[tengers]

Let's put it this way, if they made a couple of Billion dollars in December, you would have heard about it.

[tengers]

Silly, Goldman Sachs became a bank lat year, REQUIRING them to switch to a calandar fiscal year.

Yes, but that happened in September. The issue is December 2008, a very bad month, just didn't seem to exist. It seems it should have been put in 2008 or dealt with in 2009.

[Cruella]

The fourth quarter report for '08 will have been for the four month period to Dec 08, if they changed the fiscal year to match the calendar. The data won't have been lost, but the finance year 07/08 will have been 13 months long, rather than 12. It's very simple, if you get hold of their annual accounts for FY07/08, it should all be dealt with in there. SOX means you can't just not report a month.

[tengers]

Cruella, I could say, could you provide me a link, but that would be cruel. Ok, here's the deal, if you happen to have your handy dandy copy of GS 2008 annual report. The 2008 period is from November 30, 2007 to November 28, 2008, the 2009 Reporting period is from December 27, 2008 to December 25, 2009. What is missing from both reports is the month of December, 2008, a month when everyone lost their butt. This was the point of the WSJ article. Now I wouldn't have cared, if they reported their 1st Quarter earnings as $.5 Billion instead of $1.8 Billion or if they said $1.8 Billion with an * that said, but we didn't do so good in December, which isn't in any report. And I also might not give a rip if these guys weren't accounting for 5% of all the shares traded on the NYSE. December can certainly be the transition period, it just should have been accounted for before shouting "Gold" in the mining camp.

[Cruella]

That's interesting, I am - of course - posting without access to the same information you seem to have at your fingertips. I was merely basing my comments on 15+ years working as an accountant, mainly for US corporations, in the absence of definitive information.

There is a link here though, but I'm a bit annual reported out at the moment, so I've not read it yet: Goldman Sachs | Investors - 2008 Annual Report

There will be a note in the accounts somewhere with regard to the missing three weeks, almost everything else could be deducted from the balance sheet. I'm assuming you know a little about balance sheet accounting, apologies if I'm giving you credit for knowledge you may or may not have.

[tengers]

Cruella, page 20

[barnhardt2010]

Yes, but that happened in September. The issue is December 2008, a very bad month, just didn't seem to exist. It seems it should have been put in 2008 or dealt with in 2009.

Sooooo you think a 1st quarter report needs to show the December before if its really bad? OK. Page 10 of the accompanying press release.
http://www2.goldmansachs.com/our-fir...1-earnings.pdf