US v European Healthcare

[Cruella]

That's right, Ironeagle, although, as a taxpayer, I have paid already.

[Nono]

I have paid already.

Right. You've paid already and the great thing is that you have paid wholesale prices. The tax-funded programme is purchasing the materials, labour, etc. for a price that you'd never find on the private market.

[Chancellor]

Ok enough of the fight about point of entry what cruella meant I think is that it's free to her the day she goes in

Yes, that's what I understood her to be saying. I was disagreeing with that statement because someone (taxpayers) is paying for it.

and what Chancellor is saying i believe is yes it's free to you but only because it was prepaid by someone therefore at no cost at the time but the services weren't free. Does that sound about right?

Maybe not pre-paid but paid for nonetheless; on that basis, it is not free.

And this is one of the things that we have to look at in this whole debate. Those who favor European-style health care often try to argue that it's free to the user but that really isn't true because if the user is someone who pays taxes then the user is paying for the health care and if the user doesn't pay taxes then it still isn't really "free" because someone is paying for it.

[Chancellor]

I'm not saying it's free. And, tempting though it is to continue this tennis match of Did/Didn't, I shall resist and merely suggest that you go back to the OP and start debating that, rather than debating something that has not been asserted on this thread by anyone.

Nice derailing of the thread by the way, I'm sure there's something in the rules about that.

Actually, I was debating the original post. You said IN THE ORIGINAL POST that in Europe health care "is free at the point of entry to everyone" and it was exactly that point (the notion of it being "free") that I was disputing. So, knock off this crap of denying that you said "free." As long as someone is paying for it, the health care is not free - it costs someone something. It may not cost you anything at the very moment you're entering the system but it does cost someone; and as long as it costs anyone anything it is not free - it is especially not free to the taxpayers.

[Nono]

Those who favor European-style health care often try to argue that it's free to the user ...

Aw jeez... Often? How often?
Y'know, people "often" claim that yak milk is the principle export of Singapore. Makes me roll my eyes, I tell ya.

Anyone who argues that health care of any sort is "free" can be blown out of the water no problem.

As Cruella has said (repeatedly, I believe) no one is saying it's free.
But as I pointed out above, universal single-payer health care delivers it at wholesale prices.

[Chancellor]

Aw jeez... Often? How often?

Very often.

Y'know, people "often" claim that yak milk is the principle export of Singapore. Makes me roll my eyes, I tell ya.

Really? I've never heard anyone make that claim.

Anyone who argues that health care of any sort is "free" can be blown out of the water no problem.

Yes, and I was disputing the claim that it is free.

As Cruella has said (repeatedly, I believe) no one is saying it's free.
But as I pointed out above, universal single-payer health care delivers it at wholesale prices.

Do you really need me to quote the places where she specifically said "free"? What part of her using the word "free" did you NOT understand the various times that she used it, including in the original post?

Or are you saying that "free" doesn't mean "free"?

[EscVelocity]

I have a question, do you have to be employed to receive health care, or seeking employment?Is there some sort of requirements in the U.K to receive the health care. A link with more info would be greatly appreciated.

[Matt W]

Nope, you don't have to be employed or even a citizen of the UK to receive healthcare.

[brisbane buddy]

Who the hell do you think you are to insist that you have a right to a service provided by someone else? You receive health care at the pleasure of those who are willing to provide it!.

Yeah there certainly is some stuffed up, selfish and self centred people in this world, no need to prove it, I think most people know it, examples aren't really necessary.

Perhaps we should modify the Hippocratic Oath or the Declaration of Geneva to read the Hipocritical Oath. Perhaps more doctors as you suggest could live up to this reputation better.

Though personally I don't hold most doctors accountable for this, this stems from those bloody accountants and administrators running the joints or where Public Hospitals are concerned from the lack of fiscal support and moral concern from government.

Cheers.

[ironeagle]

Nope, you don't have to be employed or even a citizen of the UK to receive healthcare.

Cool then maybe all Americans should just apply for the UK plan for our mediclal bills here. Cruellla I understand you're saying you pay taxes towards you care, but I really can't believe you are paying in near what you are being sponsored for. I just don't think people who are not you ought to have to pay for your care if they don't want to spend their money on it, by forcing those people to do so it limits them from choosing to spend that money on their own children.

[Osborn F Enready]

Matt W said:
Nope, you don't have to be employed or even a citizen of the UK to receive healthcare.

FREE HEALTHCARE FOR AMERICANS IN THE UK.....

Get healthcare for only the cost of a passport, flight ticket and lodging!

[Chancellor]

Yeah there certainly is some stuffed up, selfish and self centred people in this world, no need to prove it, I think most people know it, examples aren't really necessary.

All humans are selfish by nature: we invariably act in our own self-interest.

Perhaps we should modify the Hippocratic Oath or the Declaration of Geneva to read the Hipocritical Oath. Perhaps more doctors as you suggest could live up to this reputation better.

There is nothing in the Hippocratic Oath saying people have the right to a doctor's services and I don't give a rat's ass what some document drawn up in Europe has to say.