Israeli troops out of control

[linda_mary_13]

There is no racism in that post .

My reference to racism is not found in the post but in the world view of the Jews.

[EscVelocity]

Jews are not a race! lol

[Killroy]

Jews are not a race! lol

Exactly , never have been, never will be.

It is as ridiculous as if Roman Catholics considered themselves to be Romans solely on the basis of an adopted religion .

[stardust]

Lets go back abit. Israel broke the cease-fire, and not forthwith but eventually by continually patrolling Gaza, and targetting random civilians. This inevitably perpetuates Hamas, and it fires few missiles(which btw end up at bomb shelters, and don't result in death). So Israel then plays eye for an eyelash by maasacring 600+ civilians in just 5 days. It just takes a human being to pass a sensible judgement on this, now. Israel verbally targets Hamas, but on the ground offensive it has been killing indescriminately. Back in 2006, Gaza elected Hamas. This technically means, that most of the people in Gaza do support Hamas, but that was back in 2006. After what Hamas did to Hajj pilgrims, some countries like Saudi Arabia, even declared them as infidels. The fact that Gaza has been without electricity and medicine and there are obvious humanitarian crisis, and Israel is to be blamed for that indirectly or directly..is just more than enough to loathe Israel for what it is doing. Essentially, i bet this would just breed more hate, more terrorists. Lets also not forget what happened in Lebanon between Israel and Hezbollah. Same scenario, except that now we have Hamas here.

[melvynp]

Like most of the critics of Israel and in fact all decent people, I am stunned and appalled at the violence in the current conflict. But what can be done with an implacable enemy who uses violence as a strategy, but refuses any compromise? Israel has offered compromise in the past. Compromise is likely to be offered again. It has always been met with silence and rockets.

It is easy to call Israelis fools and worse for responding by retalliation. But the only key to change lies with Hamas. If Hamas never compromises then the moral onus is upon them. And the those who so fiecely criticze Israel have their own moral blinders on. If, they did not constantly accept Palestinian intransigence, they could try to bring international pressure upon Hamas and Hezbollah. It is the only hope for change. What more can the Israelis offer Hamas but to surrender and die, evidently Hamas only satisfactory outcome?

[Diogenes]

If Hamas never compromises then the moral onus is upon them

Why should the moral onus be on the Palestinians or Hamas...why should the weaker of the two, the ones with nothing, facing outrageous odds, who had their land taken from them, also have to subject themselves to humiliation by being submissive?

And Hamas has offered long-term peace negotiations...the stickler is they refuse it to be signed on the basis of accepting Israel as a State existing on Palestinian land.

Essentially, i bet this would just breed more hate, more terrorists. Lets also not forget what happened in Lebanon between Israel and Hezbollah. Same scenario, except that now we have Hamas here.

I agree...and...Hamas, Hezbollah, every group that fights or opposes Israel is labeled terrorist or anti-Semitic...if a group formed called Mothers of Palestinians for Palestine it would end up on an Israeli terrorist list.

We are living in strange times...when a people cannot fight for the right to live in their own homeland.

[grandpa]

Like most of the critics of Israel and in fact
all decent people, I am stunned and appalled at the
violence in the current conflict.
But what can be done with an implacable enemy who
uses violence as a strategy, but refuses any compromise?

Palestinians are regularly harassed in ways reminiscent of the Jim Crow era:

A prime example of the type of [Israeli] violence perpetuated is that which
occurred in Nazareth, the largest Arab town in Israel. On October 8 [2000],
the evening of Yom Kippur during a total media blackout due to the
holiday, hundreds of Jewish residents of Nazaret Illit entered the
eastern
quarter of Nazareth and attacked Palestinian residents and their
property. They hurled stones at Palestinian homes, several of which they
also attempted to burn down. They also shouted "Death to the Arabs,"
and insults against Islam.
Rather than assisting the Palestinian citizens of Israel who were under
attack, police directed their force against them. Eyewitnesses reported
that the police stood by while Palestinian citizens were attacked, and
only intervened when the Palestinian residents came out to defend
themselves-and their intervention was to protect the Jewish citizens and
thereby allow them to continue their attack.
Statement by Adalah: The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel to the Commission on Human Rights, Special Session on Palestine

A ceas-fire should be linked to one condition; that Israel stops this kind of Klan- and Nazi-like behavior.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Why should the moral onus be on the Palestinians or
Hamas...
why should the weaker of the two, the ones with
nothing, facing outrageous odds, who had their land taken from
them, also have to subject themselves to humiliation by being
submissive?

At this point, it's almost offensive to expect Hamas or Palestinians to have moral values regarding Israel. Palestinians are under constant attack. I'm actually surprised by how peaceful they are compared to how others would react to such constant assaults.

Grandpa h.

[melvynp]

Diogenes.,

>"Why should the moral onus be on the Palestinians or >Hamas...why should the weaker of the two, the ones >with nothing, facing outrageous odds, who had their l>and taken from them, also have to subject t>hemselves to humiliation by being submissive?

Why should Israel have to die because Hamas is militarily weaker?

>And Hamas has offered long-term peace >negotiations...the stickler is they refuse it to be >signed on the basis of accepting Israel as a State >existing on Palestinian land"

And that refusal is the reason there is still violence. The Palestinians have all kinds of reasonable claims, but there was never a nation called Palestine on the land that is now Israel. The West Bank itself is under dispute although the U.N. decided it would be the nation of Palestine. It was refused by the Palestinians and the Arab states, so it can only be described as'disputed territory'

Whatever stimulates the logic of Hamas and its apologists is unknown, although it is truly difficult as a Jew to avoid an assumption of anti-semitism as part of the explanation. But whatever the motivation it allows only for the death of Israel. So keep on criticizing Israel for refusing to die.

[Dieval]

Do you have evidence that this educational system was a Hamas headquarters, or do we just assume it "sounds" that way? Furthermore, you make it sound as if Israel is just passively committing acts, like they didn't have a choice in the matter, and that they simply must act because Hamas might have links to some school.

Grandpa h.

Well....

Preliminary Background Briefing

Today, a reported 30 Palestinians were killed in a heartrending tragedy at a school in Jebaliya. Initial investigations indicate that Hamas terrorists fired mortar bombs from the area of the school towards Israeli forces, who returned fire towards the source of the shooting. The Israeli return fire landed outside the school. Intelligence indicates that among those killed were Immad Abu Iskar and Hassan Abu Iskar, two known Hamas mortar crewmen.
Behind the Headlines: The tragedy at the school in Jebaliya

[Dieval]

At this point, it's almost offensive to expect Hamas or Palestinians to have moral values regarding Israel. Palestinians are under constant attack. I'm actually surprised by how peaceful they are compared to how others would react to such constant assaults.

Grandpa h.

And Israel isn't under constant attack by rockets and mortars?

[Diogenes]

melvynp, the powers that be who created the State of Israel did so on the basis of Judeo-Christian sympathies..

very little consideration was given to those living there...in effect what they did was displace one people to accommodate another people who needed a home...

that's like taking away your house to give to a homeless person because you sympathize with his situation...and as someone else here said...giving you the garage.

Would that be acceptable to you?

Do you think if it was Ireland that the Irish would find it acceptable? Germans? French? Americans?

You can see those powers that be made no offer of a piece of their land...no...they offered someone else's.