The history test is required for adults who want to get naturalized. So the parallel would be to require those born in America to pass a test upon adulthood if they want to become citizens.Quote by: Gods_Mercenary
TC
The history test is required for adults who want to get naturalized. So the parallel would be to require those born in America to pass a test upon adulthood if they want to become citizens.
TC
This is a good application of the Second Law. However, please note that the U.S. Constitution trumps the Second Law.
Kharvel's First Law: Greed is Good™
Kharvel's Second Law: If it is good for the goose, it must always be good for the gander.
Except that the government the citizens elect chooses who gets to be a citizen, and the current citizens would prefer the proces benefit their children, obviously, rather than be fair.
“Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.”
-Albert Einstein
Lots of people fantasize about unequal relationships, leather or no. Sweet Katie once expressed a desire to be a 1950s housewife in the best historical period thread and I'm sure that now that I've invoked her name she'll show up.
I've seen some Muslim women explain it as a desire for royal treatment and a simple life. They don't have to work at all, at least in rich families. They don't have to manage their own affairs. This is what they really truly want, and while those of us who are a bit hung up on freedom don't want it we can't deny the legitimacy of their desires.
The more you complain, the less I care about your problems.
This is ridiculous... being the submissive one, how can her lifestyle reflect negatively on the country? You can't cause trouble when you are submissive and passive.
Look out kid, they keep it all hid.
Okay then, the problem is in the definition of BDSM.
BDSM (Bondage & Discipline / Domination & Submission / Sadism & Masochism) is a sexual fetish that may or may not involve the subjugation of women. However the subjugation of women within certain Islamic countries and communities is political and cultural, it doesn’t meet the criteria of a sexual fetish as its function is not specifically geared towards the giving or receiving of sexual pleasure. As to a country enshrining a BDSM practice as the norm, this would be unlikely as it is a minority interest containing elements that are very specific to the individual.
BDSM is fundamentally about inducing inequality into a relationship, and there are whole cultures that enshrine unequal relationships as the norm. As others have written, the woman lives a sheltered/limited life. On the one hand, there are many things she doesn't have to do. On the other, there are many she's not allowed to. It's like being a child, only you don't ever age out of the category; it's a lifelong role.
The other aspect of it being a cultural norm is that children are taught that it's right for the man to be in charge and for the woman to submit. Women are never free adults, but are always under the control of a father or husband, or some other male relative. Since they aren't expected to be full people, why should they be educated and have opportunities for making a life for themselves? That's the idea, anyhow.
What should the French do about citizens who espouse precisely this sort of belief, only without necessarily invoking Islamic culture or religion?
TC
This thread has become a real cacophony of different subjects.
1) Symbolism -- The French went through a pretty brutal revolution 230 years ago to free themselves of the clerics (who gave "legitimacy" to the king). They now wish to keep their society free of theocracy, for which this lady is a walking advertisement.
2) The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world -- You may have noticed how people are influenced by their parents, especially their mothers.
In short, her lifestyle is not only incompatible with the one the French are seriously worried about losing, it poses an active threat.
They ain't locking her up or applying the thumbscrews -- they're just denying her citizenship of their country.
Think a bit about the concept of citizen.
"I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything."
-- Viscount Melbourne
Ok, so what should the French do about citizens who wear burqas? Deport them?
TC
BDSM is fundamentally an acronym for a combination of sadistic and masochistic sexual deviations. Whilst I agree with the condemnation of the subjugation of women within Islamic cultures to call it BDSM is a misnomer.
Accepted definition of BDSM
C'mon TC, wake up. We already went through this on the previous page.
"I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything."
-- Viscount Melbourne
Well, BDSM is defined as requiring consent, and it's not clear that these women have or are qualified to consent. They've been indoctrinated from an early age that their role as women is inherently subservient, as Allah demands.
Whether something is a deviation depends on the norm. Under Islam, a husband is allowed, even encouraged, to strike his wife so as to remind her that he's in charge. He's allowed to inflict pain but not real damage, much like a BDSM dom. It's entirely possible to enshrine what you call a sexual deviance as the ideal.
The notion that traditional marriage is a form of BDSM occurred to me some time ago, so I tested the theory with a practical experiment. I googled up a blog entry by a submissive woman in a BDSM relationship, describing the virtues of this lifestyle and praising her master. Then I did a search and replace, changing "master" to "Christian husband" and so on, until I had an affirmation of the virtues of being the submissive wife required of a traditional Christian marriage.
To see if it rang true, I submitted it to Christian women from the AoG fundamentalist sect, and they agreed that it was an accurate and inspiring description of what God has planned for them. Try it yourself!
TC
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