Does Racism Go Both Ways? How is it fair?

[Suburbanite]

"Let's not mess around. Let's take on a biggy right now. Mankind has played a cruel joke on itself by exercising the ability to adapt skin color to climatic conditions. There are certain areas of the world where the intensity of sun exposure rendens survival difficult for white-skinned people. Man, the consummate survivor, naturally figured a way around being fried by the sun. Merely disperse the melanin pigment of the skin evenly, and develop a bit more of it, and presto! Automatic protection from the sun.
Nature did this much.

It was the other way around. Black people came first. White people began to lose Melanin, as a change to their new climate (Europe).

It has nothing to do with power or consequences, it has to do with hatred based on skin color, period.

Sorry, there is no "period" on this issue. And it certainly isn't going to come from you if there is. Your definition of racism is likened to the old adage "sticks and stones." We adults here understand that racism is far more serious than a name calling game. Some people are seriously harmed, physically, because of racism, and your weak definition only disenfranchises their opinion.

Because of affirmative action, hell yes. I absolutely know people who have been passed over for promotion, etc. because the company wasn't "black" enough.

I hear this from people a lot. Let me be the first to explain to you that you are a lair. Not only do you not "absolutely know people who have beened passed over for promotion", but you don't even know what you're talking about. Firstly, affirmative action isn't for promotions, its for being hired. Secondly, they don't ever TELL you a black guy got your job for racial reasons. Thirdly, it is the employers choice at all levels to give a LESS qualified person the job.

What ever happened to hiring based solely on their qualifications and the hell with skin color?

I'm sitting here looked at an American history book and I'm trying to find the ONE time in our history race didn't play a role in being hired for a job. Lets see, no Indians got jobs, thats right Slavery for black people, they got jobs, but no money. Then jim crow. Wow... looks like it as only a 30year period in American History that you're complaining about where things went the other way (and not that often).

Lol... Racism is purely instinctual. The way it manifested in modern society may have ended up the way you describe it, but it's not a giant conspiracy by those in power to create racism. People are naturally racist because we fear those that are different then us. People have been banding together by race for millenia. It's a tribal thing. You think racism is something new in the past 100 years? please. Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years by all kinds of races, not just "powerful white men". Infact, they are the powerful ones, and yet they are still oppressed and discriminated against and hated. Your view is drawn solely from the white vs. black conflict in contemporary america and doesn't take into account the fact that racism exists all over the globe, and has since the beginning of time.

Racism has not existed, hatred surely, and violence. There is no covert conspiracy, its overt, it was called colonization, it was called slavery, its been called apartheid. But no matter hat you call it, its involved hundreds of years and millions of murders that have cut the Black population of this earth to less than half its numbers.
But all forms of racism work the same way, it is all a political ploy to establish an external "enemy". Or sometimes an internal one. And the plot has worked a million times.

[Cephus]

Sorry, there is no "period" on this issue. And it certainly isn't going to come from you if there is. Your definition of racism is likened to the old adage "sticks and stones." We adults here understand that racism is far more serious than a name calling game. Some people are seriously harmed, physically, because of racism, and your weak definition only disenfranchises their opinion.

No, I'm simply using a much more all-inclusive definition. Some old white guy sitting on his porch watching a black guy walk by and calling him a racial epithet under his breath is just as much of a racist, even though he never does anything more than think about it, as the people in your example. That is the most common form of racism by far.

You're just trying to redefine the term so that it's only whites that can be racist. Anyone, regardless of skin color, can be racist.

I hear this from people a lot. Let me be the first to explain to you that you are a lair.

I'm a lair? Maybe you need to learn how to type "liar". And since you claimed it, it rests solely on your shoulders to prove it. So go ahead, prove I'm a liar and I don't know anyone who has been passed over for promotion because of their skin color. We'll all await your wonderful proof, or your admission that you're an ass.

[aaronssongs]

Well, some kids do bully each other, but that too is often just another form of play. When it's not, they probably learn the behavior from adults. Of course, this brings about the question of why adults aren't more like good-natured children playing in the sandbox.

I personally was exposed to racist values when I was younger, and they can be hard to totally let go of.

Grandpa h.

Kids in a sandbox are usually 5 and under...if allowed to play, they don't care about color or background. Simple. It's parents or guardians instructing that "that kid" is "different", and "not to be played with", or this one is "dirty"...that's where it starts.

[adam10312]

From Merriam Websters dictionary (www.m-w.com):

racism

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

We must define prejudice and discrimination:

discrimination

Main Entry: dis·crim·i·na·tion
Pronunciation: \dis-ˌkri-mə-ˈnā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 1648
1 a: the act of discriminating b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently
2: the quality or power of finely distinguishing
3 a: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b: prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination>

prejudice

Main Entry: 1prej·u·dice
Pronunciation: \ˈpre-jə-dəs\
Function: noun
Date: 13th century
1: injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1): preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b: an instance of such judgment or opinion c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

So, there you have it. It is very simple. Taking race into account when making decisions regarding the superiority of something is racism. This definition says nothing about black or white. Whenever this is done, it is racism. Period.

[aaronssongs]

I think it's, in part, subjective. I was on another forum (Conflicting Views), and I was frequently labeled "a racist", although I have many friends of all nationalities, creeds, and races. I do think that we favor or lean toward people we share beliefs and POV's with. I am a liberal, Democratic, black, gay man. And because I am articulate, and well-read, I think that makes some "uncomfortable", as I guess I'm supposed to fit in this little stereotypical package, and keep quiet. Well with all the "stuff" going on today, how can any rational and politically active person be expected to "keep quiet"? I'm pissed. And I have lots of reasons to be pissed. I think others are pissed. And I think they have a lot of reasons to be pissed.

[Suburbanite]

No, I'm simply using a much more all-inclusive definition. Some old white guy sitting on his porch watching a black guy walk by and calling him a racial epithet under his breath is just as much of a racist, even though he never does anything more than think about it, as the people in your example. That is the most common form of racism by far.

Right, my point exactly. You're likening calling someone a nigger under your breath to enslaving black people. The crimes are different.

You're just trying to redefine the term so that it's only whites that can be racist. Anyone, regardless of skin color, can be racist.

No, actually, you're the one attempted to redefine the term so that it incorporates frustrated lower class Blacks who might say cracker. I never said black can't be racist, they can easily be racist in the right situation. I'm just not the kind of guy who thinks name calling is racism, its name calling, its meant to be insulting. Sticks and stones. Thats my point, sticks and stones.



I'm a lair? Maybe you need to learn how to type "liar". And since you claimed it, it rests solely on your shoulders to prove it. So go ahead, prove I'm a liar and I don't know anyone who has been passed over for promotion because of their skin color. We'll all await your wonderful proof, or your admission that you're an ass.[/QUOTE]

I'm a lair? Maybe you need to learn how to type "liar". And since you claimed it, it rests solely on your shoulders to prove it. So go ahead, prove I'm a liar and I don't know anyone who has been passed over for promotion because of their skin color. We'll all await your wonderful proof, or your admission that you're an ass.

I'm glad you found my typo, its the only thing saving you from not having any argument at all. I proved it, 1, 2, 3, try reading what I wrote again.

From Merriam Websters dictionary

Tool. Do you know who owns Merriam Webster? Viacom. Guess who owns my vocabulary?

[adam10312]

Tool. Do you know who owns Merriam Webster? Viacom. Guess who owns my vocabulary?

Oh, I'm sorry. Please define racism, then prove that that is the definition.

[freedom13]

So, there you have it. It is very simple. Taking race into account when making decisions regarding the superiority of something is racism. This definition says nothing about black or white. Whenever this is done, it is racism. Period.

Maybe so, but “Merriam Webster” is not the only dictionary.

Urban Dictionary: racism

Racism - 1) Strict definition: An irrational bias towards members of a racial background. The bias can be positive (e.g. one race can prefer the company of its own race or even another) or it can be negative (e.g. one race can hate another). To qualify as racism, the bias must be irrational. That is, it cannot have a factual basis for preference.
2) Commonly intended definition (in America): A bias that white people have against blacks.
3) Politically motivated definition: A justifiable reason to redistribute resources or opportunities between groups on the basis of race alone.

1) One is not a racist for pointing out that blacks receive lower scores on their ACTs, SATs, GREs, LSATs and other standardized tests of academic achievement.
2) One is a racist for pointing out #1 *IF* there is no reason for pointing it out other than to make black people feel inferior.
3) Racism is the reason that a 20 on the ACT should actually be considered a 25 if the test taker was black.

[Chancellor]

Maybe so, but “Merriam Webster” is not the only dictionary.

Urban Dictionary: racism

Racism - 1) Strict definition: An irrational bias towards members of a racial background. The bias can be positive (e.g. one race can prefer the company of its own race or even another) or it can be negative (e.g. one race can hate another). To qualify as racism, the bias must be irrational. That is, it cannot have a factual basis for preference.
2) Commonly intended definition (in America): A bias that white people have against blacks.
3) Politically motivated definition: A justifiable reason to redistribute resources or opportunities between groups on the basis of race alone.

1) One is not a racist for pointing out that blacks receive lower scores on their ACTs, SATs, GREs, LSATs and other standardized tests of academic achievement.
2) One is a racist for pointing out #1 *IF* there is no reason for pointing it out other than to make black people feel inferior.
3) Racism is the reason that a 20 on the ACT should actually be considered a 25 if the test taker was black.

Now, how about using a real dictionary. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionary (AskOxford: racism):

racism

• noun 1 the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race. 2 discrimination against or antagonism towards other races.









WARNING ABOUT THE URBAN DICTIONARY (Urban Dictionary): IT PRETENDS TO BE A DICTIONARY BUT THE DEFINITIONS ARE PROVIDED BY PRETTY MUCH ANYONE WHO WANTS TO. FROM THE URBAN DICTIONARY WEBSITE: Urban Dictionary is a slang dictionary with your definitions.

[Suburbanite]

Don't make that warning because you are phrasing it the wrong way. Warning, Oxford and Merriam Webster are dictionaries with definitions written be very few people. Urban dictionary takes our vocabulary back into our own hand. Its wikidictionary. Its what language REALLY is like. Its actually GENIUS, and FAR MORE valid. It contains far more words, and more definitions for these words. Its clearly superior from a linguistic and social standpoint.

But this isn't about how you're being brainwashed by your own dictionary. This is about how individuals looks at things, and I think my perspective, pragmatically, will help to remove the institutes of racism while ignoring and allowing the private freedoms anyone has to make a racial epitaph or personal dislike a race of people. I think my definition allows us to actually work on the problem of racism instead of worrying about being racist ourselves.

[Suburbanite]

By the way Oxford is made in England, so I feel like that makes it pretty invalid to us who like to use American definitions.

[another day]

Racism is NOT instinctual. That's just ignorant. Kids know nothing of racism. They see everyone as equal. Adults teach racism and prejudice in general.

Kids might not know anything of racism as a concept, but they do mostly naturally gravitate towards peers that are like them.

Don't make that warning because you are phrasing it the wrong way. Warning, Oxford and Merriam Webster are dictionaries with definitions written be very few people. Urban dictionary takes our vocabulary back into our own hand. Its wikidictionary. Its what language REALLY is like. Its actually GENIUS, and FAR MORE valid. It contains far more words, and more definitions for these words. Its clearly superior from a linguistic and social standpoint.

Or maybe not. Those definitons are misinterpreted symbols marauding as definitions. To say "racism is whites hating blacks" is the viewpoint of someone who has been brainwashed by the media of contemporary america. Racism is far more encompassing then that. Many asian people hate and fear blacks. Muslims hate jews. Americans hate french people. It's all the same thing.

I'm just not the kind of guy who thinks name calling is racism, its name calling, its meant to be insulting.

Racism is a state of mind, not an action. So your right, name calling in itself is not racism, it's the mindset behind hate that is racism.

Racism has not existed, hatred surely, and violence.

You seem to be going back and forth. Racism has not existed prior to the 20th century? Do you stand by that comment? It's ridiculous, you are suffering from a very short term memory.

I'll say it again, there is racial oppression, brought on by racists, but one doesn't have to proactively oppress to be a racist, racism is a state of mind.