Nooses..jokes in bad taste or hate crimes?

[Milton Bradley]

My last neighborhood was heavily tagged, and as far as I know, no one took tags as personal. The kids tagged anything that didn't move, and a few things that did. It was seen as a way to mark their territory, not as a threat against the property they tagged.
That's just from my experience. Other's reality may differ.

Did you walk through these areas?

[Foxfyre]

As one dedicated to the eradication of PC, I think step one is to recognize that everybody doesn't agree on what a particular symbol means. To Citizen A, a Confederate flag stands for slavery, cruelty, racism, etc. To Citizen B, a Confederate flag stands for Southern pride, independence, a rebel nature, or some such. Must Citizen B forever forego his unoffensive (to him) symbol because Citizen A sees it as something else?

Likewise a noose could easily be a prank or humorous symbol. It could be a reminder to avoid traps or symbolic of law and order, i.e. Judge Roy Bean's justice west of the Pecos or whatever. It would never have occurred to me that it was a racist symbol, for instance, until that incident where nooses were hung from a tree.

Again MUST we accept the interpretation that others place on something when we don't agree with that interpretation at all?

[Jack]

Did you walk through these areas?

You bet, daily. Like I said, it was my hood as much as theirs. I'm one of those ignorant bastards who refuse to let punks of any stripe try to intimidate me. The result of not caring about their claims of ownership? We all got along OK. They tagged, I painted over the tags. They retagged...

[Jack]

Foxfyre, while I admire your intentions, my own opinion is that in the America of the 19th-21st century, the noose is a symbol that only represents the killing of Blacks. I don't hear much indecision over the meaning of it. Just like the swastika was once a religious symbol, ever since WWll it only represents the nazi party in people's minds. Some symbols have several meanings, but at the very least, the noose has always been a sign of death.

[Mia]

These boys here in the South know damn well what a noose means to a black person. It means, 'we're going to lynch you, nigger', as happened many, many times in these parts, with no prosecution for the perps.

[The Decider]

a noose could easily be a prank or humorous symbol. It could be a reminder to avoid traps or symbolic of law and order, i.e. Judge Roy Bean's justice west of the Pecos or whatever. It would never have occurred to me that it was a racist symbol, for instance, until that incident where nooses were hung from a tree.

Foxfyre, the noose hung on the door of a prominent black professor. Do you think that was coincidence? Just a Judge Roy Bean prank? A humorless joke? The black professor, the target of this "prank," now has security watching her residence and is scared for her life. She doesn't have the luxury of assuming a "prank." Somebody at Columbia University went out of their way to send her a message and she has no alternative but to prepare for the worst. I really doubt that your assurances of "pranksters" and "15 minutes of fame" will make the danger go away.

The "prank" is a crime against the black professor, just like placing a fake bomb in a US mailbox is a crime, or yelling "bomb, bomb" in an airport is a crime, or telephoning "fake" death threats is a crime. We don't "ignore" those acts regardless of motivation.

The motivation of the noose hanging is an interesting detail for a jury and judge to consider when deciding on racial intent (hate crime) or some version of disturbing the peace and violating private property rights. First, we need to find the "jokesters" and extend their 15 minutes of fame as felony defendants.

We'll see who laughs last then.

As one dedicated to the eradication of PC, I think step one is to recognize that everybody doesn't agree on what a particular symbol means. To Citizen A, a Confederate flag stands for slavery, cruelty, racism, etc. To Citizen B, a Confederate flag stands for Southern pride, independence, a rebel nature, or some such. Must Citizen B forever forego his unoffensive (to him) symbol because Citizen A sees it as something else?

No, a Confederate flag owner can hang the flag in his house or on the back of his pickup. But flying the Confederate flag over government buildings like South Carolina's Capitol? No dice. At that point the perspectives of Citizen A and Citizen B are in conflict and the only solution is a political one. Apparently the Confederate flag is losing political support even in South Carolina. Tough luck for Citizen B.

[Milton Bradley]

You bet, daily. Like I said, it was my hood as much as theirs. I'm one of those ignorant bastards who refuse to let punks of any stripe try to intimidate me. The result of not caring about their claims of ownership? We all got along OK. They tagged, I painted over the tags. They retagged...

[Tips hat]


Well that has to be descibed more as you calling their bluff. People have been beaten up for less.


A violent gang ( as I hoped was implied in the original question ) might not take to you painting over their tags on a regular basis.


Suppose you know the gang is violent, and there are potential repercussions for just walking past, or painting over their signs, then would you be intimidated to the level of the people being offended by the noose?

[Jack]

In this city, gang graffiti and tags appear to be mostly territorial markings. I wasn't kidding when I said I can rarely read them. Most are so stylized or cryptic that they can only be deciphered by rival gangs. They are intended to serve as warnings only to other gangs. A few are done for bragging rights, inner-city artwork created by young people as statements of identity. Many are quite beautiful. But by design nearly all graffiti and tags are not clear in intention to the uninitiated.

A noose isn't ambiguous. It has no subtle meaning or subtext I'm aware of. From "Hang-em-high" in the old West to lynchings in the South, the noose represented one thing, death. It's somewhat like a raised middle finger, which also has one, unambiguous meaning. I don't know how to take either any other way than "you should die" and "**** you".

[Mia]

Me either. To the people that think it could be construed as a joke or a prank - for that to be the case, you still need a common meaning for the noose between the person who hangs it, and his intended audience. So what is that meaning?

[Rooster]

No, since I can rarely understand what's written in graffiti, whereas a noose is an obvious, historical reference

Nooses were used in the "wild west" as punishment for breaking the laws of the city; ie cattle rustlers, shootings etc. I dont see where the black community has sole ownership of the noose.

Gang graffiti is practically art. Some of the stuff spray painted on buildings and walls are nice. Too bad they cant put that talent to better uses.

[Jack]

Nooses were used in the "wild west" as punishment for breaking the laws of the city; ie cattle rustlers, shootings etc.

I grant that its application has not solely been against Blacks, but its meaning, what it represents, has remained consistent regardless of the color of the neck it was put around. It's a symbol of death and punishment for some crime, be it cattle theft or simply being born Black, which for some bizarre reason racists consider unacceptable.

[Rooster]

Well that has to be descibed more as you calling their bluff. People have been beaten up for less.

I applaud her for continuing to walk around in her "hood". The tagging was an attempt at manipulation and fear. She was not going to stand for it. She was not assaulted because the taggers realized she was not "playing their game" it was a live and let live situation.