Bush claims authority to suspend Geneva

[Osborn F Enready]

Are Executive Orders legal? How about Presidential Proclamations? Fast Track Legislation? Well if you said yes to all of those unconditionally, and accept them as legal, why bother arguin a topic like this, as you can't see how the CURRENT system is acting illegally, so the point is moot.

[Gorgo]

There is just no evidence that torture works.

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready,
as you can't see how the CURRENT system is acting illegally, so the point is moot.

This is the attitude so common among leftists and self designated intellectuals.
"I keep explaining things, and there's zero possibility of me being wrong, anyone who disagrees is evidently too stupid to see the light. They just don't understand."
I understand what you are saying because I've heard it all before, and I believe it to be incorrect.


Gorgo: There is just no evidence that torture works

What planet do you live on?

[Osborn F Enready]

SHOW ME WHERE THEN, or are you hogging all those facts for yourself!

PLEASE, if you could disprove it you would, and so would the Bush camp, so what is your excuse..... I will be waiting a fact, something rare in your posts.

[Comrade]

Which facts would you like?
Evidence that torture works? That is common sense. In any case, there are tons of books to read on the subject
Evidence that Geneva Conventions only apply to those who adhere to them? This is something you could look up if you think I'm lying.

[Osborn F Enready]

Well Comrade, it goes against EVERY GRAIN OF WHAT BUILT AMERICA, in the simplest sense. Did we torture those who stayed in the colonies, yet chose not to fight for the Declaration of Independance in the War with England? No, because we were moral, educated people. We understood that the true meaning of liberty, is to be left the fuck alone.

The Geneva convention was a treaty signed to help protect OUR PRISONERS of war, and that is why we adhere to it, to insure others see and respect that, and hopefully expect them to see that respect and match us equally in that sense.

If we start torture, we will surely receive it twofold in return, with an unknow voracity, and willingness by a majority of third world nations who have felt our boot of sanctions on their neck for a long time because of their geographic location. Have you ever heard of lead by example, lead from the front, DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR....you know, that old Marine saying??? It is our IDEALS at stake here.... why can you not see that?

[Gorgo]

No. There is no good evidence that torture works. None.

[Comrade]

Gorgo...
The first one that comes to mind is the torture during the middle ages for false confessions, and that is plenty to be counterproof.
People wouldn't torture if it didn't work. Then again, I'm sure things like the rack and the iron maiden were just play toys and never really worked :rolleyes:


Enready, no kidding. I didn't advocate torture, I advocated against preventing all torture because whenever you deny yourself a weapon you give the enemy an advantage.

And you are entirely correct in saying that the Geneva convenstions were there to protect our soldiers. That's the point of the "adherents only" clause. It's called deterence. You think our enemies are following Geneva convention rules? What's the point of shooting ourselves in the foot?

[Osborn F Enready]

THESE CURRENT ENEMIES, we have made into enemies, falsely, are NOT ADHEREING TO THE GENEVA CONVENTION. This is the time when it is MOST important for US TO FOLLOW IT, as it shows are willingness to LIVE UNDER RULES, WE, YES WE ,once again RULES WE SET for combat...


WHAT HERE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?!?

[Comrade]

"we have made into enemies, falsely."

And it comes out. America is really to blame for Islamic hate. If we had just been more culturally sensitive...
Enready, when somebody tries to mug you, you don't acquiesce because you (pretend you're white, if you aren't) are the cause of his socioeconomic suffering (which is about as accurate as saying that we are to blame for oil-rich Middle East's suffering)

There is nothing I don't understand about this. You keep assuming that nobody would disagree with you, considering the same information.

[Osborn F Enready]

When someone tries to mug me, the constitution that set down the LAWS OF THE LAND, allows me to defend myself once a crime has actually STARTED TO BE COMMITTED, it is then MY INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND and INSURE MY RIGHTS ARE NOT IGNORED, TRAMPLED, SIDESTEPPED OR ABUSED.

[Comrade]

You are saying we were never attacked by Islamism, and that liberalizing Iraq would not be a great boon in trying to remove the threat from that region?

And stop with the rhetorical capitalizing, people don't read the same way they talk, and it makes your posts irritating to read.