what is intelligence?

[Athena]

I am cheating, I have stolen a Hindu definition of human intelligence, and adjusted it to define universal intelligence.

"Biological potential to process information that can be activated in the universe to create products that are of value to the universe."

For example different organisms learn and retain information essential to their survival and reproduction. This is so of the wasp or of a human genius. Computers store information, and so do the layers of earth. Everything is subject to order from the atom to a human genius. Is not order an expression of intellignece?

[Kuldeep]

You are talking of physical order, Athena. Humm, yes to an extent Intelligence comes in the perview of physical world viz. data recording in the brain cells. Definitely, everything is stored in perfect order.

The only thing I wish to add here is that controller and data processor of the system is not physical but meta-physical Indentity (meta-physical mind + Individualistic Consciousness), which in religious language can be called Soul. Oh, surely order of action/reaction and balance of give and take of Karamas too remain in order, which take care luck and destiny of the person in question.

[ZNFYRH]

I would say intelligence is simpler.

It's the capacity to retain or learn the knowledge of the consequences attached to certain actions... knowing both causes and effects.

Wisdom is knowing when to make the appropriate choice.

For example...

Knowing that the fire is hot and can burn is intelligence. Knowing how long you can put your hand in the fire and how far in until it burns is intelligence.

Choosing to act on that information is wise, or unwise, depending on the desired outcome.

[Athena]

Some good comments. Kuldeep, would you say the consciousness is both intelligent and wise?

I read the distinction of intelligent and wise in a Qabalah book and I am not sure if I agree with the reasoning. Like I studied gerontology and had information- this could be intelligence. That information was pretty useless, because I lacked experience and didn't have a sense of the meaning of the facts I knew, that would be the wisdom part, right? In the Qabalah explanation, I think it was the other way around. Interestingly, the idea was, God had to learn through physical bodies, to have both intelligence and wisdom.

Now several writings on the subject I have come across, claim human consciousness is essential to the God experience. Chardin, a Catholic priest whom the church prevented from publishing, wrote, God is asleep in rocks and minerals, waking in plants and animals, to know self in man.

I am trying to grasp the Mayan concept, but as their consciousness was so different from ours, this is not easy. However, as Arguella (sp?) explains things, our sun and planet are living organisms. Intelligence is sent from the center of the universe to our sun and relaid to earth. Humans are essential to the consciousness of this organism, and the human consciousness has had to evolve. Ultimately, we are to connect with other life forms like ours throughout the universe.

[Praxius]

I found the Hindu Teachings follow along a very understandable and logical explination of life.... it was the main teachings that helped me come about merging all religions, all scientific knowlege and phillosophy together to get a further accurate explination of life and existance.

You're basically tip toeing around a bold statement which I have said in the past, which is everything in existance is alive. Trees, Rocks, Planets, Stars, Animals, Aliens, Computers, Clouds, etc... all are forms of life, which are all made up of Atoms, and all store their expreiences in their own ways. All live differently and all live longer or shorter than another.

This is also why you will hear those acid heads tell you that everything in the Universe is connected in one way or another.... all you got to do is figure out how to tap into what you want.

The core essence of life is to survive. In order to survive, one has to have enough intelligance to defend their lives in their own ways. One has to procreate to survive, one has to eat, one has to make shelter, one has to move, and one has to learn not to be edible.

Trees and plant life during a forest fire, will instinctivly close their seed pods and tuck them in, in order to protect them from being damaged from the fire and heat. Venus Flytraps know when to eat.....

.... hell, even the planet we live on knows how to keep itself going, despite what we have done to it. The Earth relies on a stable ecosystem to sustain life on it. When we pollute and damage the planet, the Earth will adapt. When Ice caps melt, the sea levels will rise, increasing the temprature, causing more heating. The Earth in turn would then loose more land mass, which helps keep in heat, and then from increased winds and cooling down from less Ground friction, the Earth would cool back down after a while. If this does not happen, then the Earth adjusts where the climates go. One place that was once desert may become tropical. Those places that were tropical, will become Tundra. Those places that were Tundra, will become Artic, and so on.

Where there is less damage to the Ozone, the Earth will begin repairs there when it can and will begin to buildup an artic pole there when it can. Chances are this would shift the axis of the Earth and possibly change our way of life dramatically.

The Earth has all kinds of possible things is can or will do.... only time will tell... but to me, there's a sign of some intelligence going on.

[Athena]

Praxius, The Mayan explanation would add the messages from the center of the universe, relaid through the sun to your explanation. I think sun activity is involved with the heating of the earth and breaking down of ozone.

I try to stretch my mind around these ideas to Kuldeep's consciousness. I think we have a difficult time comprehending a larger reality, because we are human. A reality that doesn't need us, any more than we need ants, is unpleasant to us. A reality of being part of a larger consciousness beyond our individual physical forms, is so beyond our experience, it is beyond our comprehension.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

(sitting quietly enjoying this thread) :)

[Kuldeep]

Praxius, The Mayan explanation would add the messages from the center of the universe, relaid through the sun to your explanation. I think sun activity is involved with the heating of the earth and breaking down of ozone.

I try to stretch my mind around these ideas to Kuldeep's consciousness. I think we have a difficult time comprehending a larger reality, because we are human. A reality that doesn't need us, any more than we need ants, is unpleasant to us. A reality of being part of a larger consciousness beyond our individual physical forms, is so beyond our experience, it is beyond our comprehension.

Leaving the difference between intelligence and wisdom for the time being I would try to connect individual consciousness and Praxius's expalnation with ultimate consciousness. Frist his Quote:

The core essence of life is to survive. In order to survive, one has to have enough intelligance to defend their lives in their own ways. One has to procreate to survive, one has to eat, one has to make shelter, one has to move, and one has to learn not to be edible.

Excellent pick "The core essence of life is to survive". I would add eternally to that survive. This essence is, in fact, a property which is motivated by individual consciousness through a mechanism comprising of meata-physical mind, physical mind and physical body in case of all the living world species. They communicate the feeling of urge to survive eternally with others by way of justures, emotions, cries, sentiments, languages and the like... While non-living world must be having a some different mechanism to exhibit this urge for survival. Intelligence which is associated with the Individual consciousness has to be present to get that urge of survival fulfilled or exhibited.

The apparent individuality by each indentity is due to feeling of separatness in meta-physical mind or due to feeling of Individual I'ness (Ego, the feeling of existence). So, because of this individual consciousness, individual feels his existence within the contour of his physical body. If, somehow, his feeling of Individuality gets erased, his feeling of existence widens to whole of universe and may even beyond. This stage is the stage of absolute consciousness which may be termed as God's consciousness. It may noted that the real God is still beyond his absolute consciousness, which is beyond conception.

To put it very straight, the real source of Intelligenence is not even absolute consciousness but SOMETHING who has that absolute consciouness. That source one may name as GOD or reverse DOG that does not matter much !!!!

[Kuldeep]

Some good comments. Kuldeep, would you say the consciousness is both intelligent and wise?

I read the distinction of intelligent and wise in a Qabalah book and I am not sure if I agree with the reasoning. Like I studied gerontology and had information- this could be intelligence. That information was pretty useless, because I lacked experience and didn't have a sense of the meaning of the facts I knew that would be the wisdom part, right? In the Qabalah explanation, I think it was the other way around.

First let me tell you what I understand from Intelligence and Wisdom!
Intelligence is the swiftness with which one can acquire, understand, and accumulate fresh knowledge about anything and everything. While; wisdom is the appropriateness with which one would apply the accumulated knowledge due to intelligence for any specified purpose.

Now after writing my definitions for both, I have read Qabalah explanation, I find it of not much value!!!

What you say about my definitions, Athena???

Interestingly, the idea was, God had to learn through physical bodies, to have both intelligence and wisdom.

Here, it is definitely the other way round! As explained in my previous post that root cause of everything physical, meta-physical including INTELLIGENCE AND WISDOM is SOMETHING (GOD) in the stage of Absolute Consciousness. But, what you are writing is with respect to Individual Consciousness, which is shaded with meta-physical mind and then with gross physical mind and the body. Apparently, due to illusion, it seems that physical body and mind pick up data from surroundings while; Individual Consciousness seems to receive it to store in physical and meta-physical mind. So what you feel is correct physically but is in fact is reverse of that!!!

Now several writings on the subject I have come across claim human consciousness is essential to the God experience. Chardin, a Catholic priest whom the church prevented from publishing, wrote, God is asleep in rocks and minerals, waking in plants and animals, to know self in man.

Agreed, physically that seems to be correct. But, in reality everything is the property of that sleeping God only!!! ALL IS DUE TO HIM ONLY. Exactly the way, all your body parts, internal organs, mind, soul is due to YOU, Since, you are not sleeping while body functions, same way my SOMETHING (GOD) IS NOT SLEEPING while; THIS UNIVERSE GOES ON AND ON!!!!

I am trying to grasp the Mayan concept, but as their consciousness was so different from ours, this is not easy. However, as Arguella (sp?) explains things, our sun and planet are living organisms. Intelligence is sent from the center of the universe to our sun and relayed to earth. Humans are essential to the consciousness of this organism, and the human consciousness has had to evolve. Ultimately, we are to connect with other life forms like ours throughout the universe.

I am writing what comes to my unbiased mind without reading or grasping what others say. Just today, I have read your Quabalah's explanation on intelligence and wisdom, which I found as absurd!!

I am not aware of your Arguella or Mayan concept as well, but yes SOMETHING that has Absolute Consciousness is the source of this whole Universe/Universes and beyond if there is anything!!! You can call centre of Universe, I won't mind!!!

[Athena]

Oh my Kuldeep, you push me to the limits of my reasoning capability.

Intelligence is the swiftness with which one can acquire, understand, and accumulate fresh knowledge about anything and everything. While; wisdom is the appropriateness with which one would apply the accumulated knowledge due to intelligence for any specified purpose.

Does the consciouness of which you speak, accumulate knowledge? If not, then it can not be wise. :) this might explain why we were created less than perfect and the problem of our imprefection has not been corrected? Forgive please, I can not avoid thinking with Christian explanations of what is. A perfect God would have to be both all knowing and wise, and this is not possible, because wisdom is gained through experience. That is, somethings can not be known without experience, therefore, not until the end of eternity could a God be all knowing. This would mean we must contemplate what a God would need to learn to become wise.

[Praxius]

Oh and one more thign I would like to add in regards to the Earth and Sun....

Another reason to think of intelligence towards a planet, would be by comparing the Earth's elements to a human's elements:

#1 - A human has a heart, which pumps blood, heat and energy throughout our systems to keep us alive, moving and warm.

#1 - The Earth has a central core which helps keep the planet warm with the combination of the Suns rays heating the outside. The magma that comes from the Earths core could be compared to the blood in a human, pumping magma through many viens underground, which reach to volcanos, fault lines, both underground and underwater. This is pretty much how all life and land came to be on Earth.

#2 - When we are infected with a virus or bacteria, our systems adapt and change our temprature, increase productivity of white blood cells, and try and burn it out of our systems or adapt and kill it off.

#2 - When the Earth's eviroment is damaged or changed, in turn the Earth will react and adapt in order to keep everything balanced as possible. The Earth will increase/decrease temprature, increase/decrease water levels, etc. Us humans could be considdered the white blood cells of the Earth.... we just haven't figured out our roll yet.

#3 - We like to stay in warm climates where we can survive, but not too hot or we will crisp, like in a desert.

#3 - The Earth is in a good balance of distance from the sun to keep a balanced temprature to survive as it is.... the Earth has a few "dead" or "Dormant" brothers and sisters around who didn't get it right.... who are either too close or too far away, etc. They all have cores as well, but not functioning to the extent as the Earth's.

Even the Sun has a core..... everything and everyone has a core of energy in some manner, which it the essence of what makes it what it is.... is it considdered on big Atom of existance? Is it our souls?

[Athena]

Agreed, physically that seems to be correct. But, in reality everything is the property of that sleeping God only!!! ALL IS DUE TO HIM ONLY. Exactly the way, all your body parts, internal organs, mind, soul is due to YOU, Since, you are not sleeping while body functions, same way my SOMETHING (GOD) IS NOT SLEEPING while; THIS UNIVERSE GOES ON AND ON!!!!

Hum, our bodies function while we sleep. I don't mean sleep walking, which some people do, but inner bodily processes continue while we sleep.

I saw a movie about with a Krishna type character. Life as we know it occurred as a dream to this character/God, and stopped when he woke.
When he returned to sleep, life started all over again. That is, life as we know it is, the dream of the dreamer. This would be a non judgemental God, observing without judgement and emotional reactions. The dreamer would only observe and not take action as a thunderbolt throwing God takes action when displeased.

Once again, Kuldeep, I am amazed by how your thoughts interact with mine. We so need other cultural points of view to explore want we think.
Thank you for being here.