political showdown on iraq

[bishop]

congress passed legislation funding the war and mandating troop reductions. bush vetoed that legislation.

so, here we are at a crossroads. on one hand, if the democrats cave in to bush's demands, we'll have the continuation of this war with no end in sight. on the other hand, if the democrats stand firm and resolute, we can see an end to this war.

should the democrats stand firm, or cave in?

[Scribbler1]

It's, as usual, a matter of realistic thinking. This whole thing is exactly like the big debate over the Democrats' big bad non-binding resolution they all publicly fought about when the Dems first won majority status.

It's bullshit. They passed the bill and made their point. Bush promised to veto and he did. There will be NO 2/3 majority to keep it alive and the Democrats knew that. Hell, they ALL knew it but did it anyway. Can this be any MORE transparent?

Maybe either try to concentrate on something Bush WILL sign, although if he would it can't be much good, or forget about Bush and work on the Republicans to get them to join up with something they BOTH like, thereby guaranteeing a veto-proof bill.

Otherwise it's simply more time wasting for the idiot sheep's benefit.

[CoffeeSaint]

I say that it will take a showdown over something like this to wake the idiots up and get them angry. It might as well be this war.

[Scribbler1]

The idiots are AREADY awake. This is as good as it gets with them.

[Osborn F Enready]

I think the dems should fight this to impeachment, or force the president to take his "claimed" right of emergency powers and supercede the congress, forcing congress hand.

This is a necessary battle that has come at an unfortunate time, by two criminal arms of the government. Neither wants to claim their blame for their criminality.

Congress failed to stop the war from starting by not having debate and signing off without getting clear expectations from Bush in writing, and won't admit it by stopping it.
Bush started the war on lies and agenda, and refuses to admit it by stopping it since he couldn't stick to his convictions.

Nothing good can come out of this the way they are arguing about it.

Congress is looking for footing it doesn't have in its own claimed ideology. The mass majority of the democrats in office are supporters of emergency powers, and fear treading on that power because they know they will be taking away their own power should they ever gain presidential seat again.

We are watching both sides crumble from failed logic, and now they all want the people to accept "no one is to blame" and allow them to wash their hands of it with no political repercussion.





They should demand timetables if funding is given, period. If the President wants to usurp their authority using unitary executive, try it. If not, he will be FORCED to pull the troops home, and ruin Americas image internationally even more than his childish motives for war did in the first place, and we will all suffer the due consequences for OUR failure in the public from stopping unjust wars in our name, AND lacking the will to regin in a corrupt, tyrannical government under the Bush administration.

[bishop]

if we were to get into a situation where bush attempted to continue the war without funding, the congress would be in an even stronger position to seek impeachment.

i realize that the dems' motives are intentional - and i think it's necessary. we still have too many people going "we can't pull out! what if we withdraw and they all start killing each other?".. there are enough of these people out there, that a complete cutoff of funding for the war is entirely unrealistic.

if flushing another hundred billion down the crapper is what it'll take to get our people to begin coming home, i'll fully support it. i for one hope the dems don't revert back to the spineless jellyfish that they have been for several years now.

not that i'm exactly supporting him, but john edwards' comments mirror my own views on this issue:

Congress needs to stand firm and strong. Congress should answer the president's veto by sending him another bill with a timetable for withdrawal. And if he vetoes that one, Congress should send him another and another until we end this war and bring our troops home.

[RVonse]

Oh but the president says he will "help congress craft a new bill" just going forward like the little dictator he is.

My only comment is full agreement with Scribbler1. Its time for congress to stop acting like a bunch of shitheads.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Well all the dem fanatics are out, in support of this fight across this forum and others.

I say fight it it to the end! Go all out! Show America where the Dems stand on war fighting, and what they really think of the troops. And the dems will reap what they sow. Personally I think it's funny to watch the real dems come out for this thing, I got my popcorn to watch.

[RickSp]

I say fight it it to the end! Go all out! Show America where the Dems stand on war fighting, and what they really think of the troops. And the dems will reap what they sow. Personally I think it's funny to watch the real dems come out for this thing, I got my popcorn to watch.

That's right fight it to the end. No matter how many fine Americans die for absolutely nothing!

Don't fall off your barstool.

[bishop]

the majority of the country supports timetables, only the growing fringe of bush supporters support endless war. i'm sure the troops are glad that they have people back home supporting their extended tours of duty, away from their families, fighting/dying for no verifiable reason.

it's also cute to see partisans fighting over who loves the troops more, just like they fight over who can best protect children, elian gonzalez, the elderly, etc... it's all little more than regurgitated and mindless rhetoric as far as i'm concerned.

personally, my support for withdrawal has little to do with the troops - although having them home is a good thing as far as i'm concerned.

[Mr.Vicchio]

The democrats support this, and bishop you're reason for supporting this is no different then Nancy Pelosi's, pure politicals and advancement of the democrat agenda.

[bishop]

enlighten me, since you apparently know me better than i know myself.. why do i support this legislation that mandates our withdrawal from iraq?