When should Atheism be sorted out?

[Autophage]

Some atheists I know are against abortion. Some are against gay marriage. Not all by any means, but as many were turned off by the organized aspects of religion to begin with, it'd be difficult to form an organization of Atheists that speaks for the views of all Atheists, everywhere.

[donkrabbit]

Originally posted by ruiner,

I would like to leave you all with a quick thought:
How many people have marvelled at the butterfly or imagined soaring above the mountains with the eagle? And yet how many of these people have denied divine Creation of these wonderful creatures? No doubt if the butterfly and eagle could talk they would shout "God made us you idiot!", but unfortunately they cannot (they have no vocal chords). Without faith the truth will always remain illusive.

I have a difficult time understanding how exactly this proves God's existence. The logic seems a bit circular to me, since your argument assumes that God did indeed create butterflies and eagles, but you don't prove that this is true. Consider this statements;

"If butterflies and eagles could talk, they would shout 'Biological evolution creates us you idiot!', but unfortunately they cannot (they have no vocal chords)."


Do you consider that to be a valid argument that butterflies and eagles were created as a result of evolution? I certainly do not.


Also, why is truth illusive without faith? It would seem to me that faith is a poor method of discovering what is true and what is untrue, since faith does not require beliefs to be supported by objective and logical reasoning. You can have faith in anything- regardless of whether it is true or not.

[Mia]

It is still called the theory of evolution, right? Neither can be proven.

[donkrabbit]

I believe there is plenty of scientific proof behind the claims of evolutionism. Although I have to admit that I personally am not very educated on the subject.

Still, I don't think that the fact that one theory cannot be proven makes another theory any more true. I can admit that I do not know how the universe was created, but I do not believe God created it. Some creationists seem to believe that if you can't prove that the universe was created any other way, then Creationism wins by default.

[Suburbanite]

lol, the ACLU is an atheist organization? That must have been what the Mormons and the KKK were saying when the ACLU defended them.

[mrmufin]

Originally posted by ruiner,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ruiner,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Since the sad events of September 11th 2001 everyones priority has been quite rightly on Bin Laden, Saddam and the color coded warning system. But are we so focused on threats from abroad that we are missing a bigger threat from our own soil? I am speaking about a religion* other than Islam - atheism.[/b]

If atheism is a religion, baldness is a hair color.

<!--QuoteBegin-ruiner,
The question is should something be done about this now, or can we afford to wait until Iraq is done?[/quote]
So what, specifically, do you propose should be done? Perhaps some good, ol&#39; fashioned witch trials? Or maybe take all &#39;em atheists out back an&#39; flog &#39;em severely with a blunt object? Just curious...

Regards,
mrmufin

[mrmufin]

Originally posted by Mia,
It is still called the theory of evolution, right? Neither can be proven.

Just as there are theories of gravity, relativity, beta decay, etc. BTW, "proofs" are for mathematics and alcohol. Science relies on evidence, of which there is a great deal supporting biological evolution. See the talk.origins website for discussions of such evidence.

Regards,
mrmufin

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by donkrabbit,
I believe there is plenty of scientific proof behind the claims of evolutionism. Although I have to admit that I personally am not very educated on the subject.

Still, I don&#39;t think that the fact that one theory cannot be proven makes another theory any more true. I can admit that I do not know how the universe was created, but I do not believe God created it. Some creationists seem to believe that if you can&#39;t prove that the universe was created any other way, then Creationism wins by default.

Firstly, this is science, there is no such thing as Gravitism or Germism, evolution has no "ism" to it. And secondly, a scientific theory is a collective model of explanations for a given phenomenon that has been tested thoroughly and found to correlate with the data. Creationists play by Ignorance is strength, that&#39;s all they have and all they will ever have lest God comes down and gives us a demonstration.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by ruiner,

I would like to leave you all with a quick thought:
How many people have marvelled at the butterfly or imagined soaring above the mountains with the eagle? And yet how many of these people have denied divine Creation of these wonderful creatures? No doubt if the butterfly and eagle could talk they would shout "God made us you idiot&#33;", but unfortunately they cannot (they have no vocal chords). Without faith the truth will always remain illusive.

Sorry, mythical talking animals only exist within the old testament and other story books.

[Mia]

Originally posted by donkrabbit,
I believe there is plenty of scientific proof behind the claims of evolutionism. Although I have to admit that I personally am not very educated on the subject.

Still, I don&#39;t think that the fact that one theory cannot be proven makes another theory any more true.

That was my point - evolutionists have decided that since creationism cannot be proven, that means their theory must be correct, forgetting scientists call it a theory for a reason. And the same goes for Creationists.

I belong to the latter group, but don&#39;t get into debate about it because no matter how much research I post, I can&#39;t prove it definitively in the end, so it is a waste of time.

There is evidence for evolution, just not near enough that the world and all it&#39;s inhabitants were created randomly to say with any accuracy that&#39;s waht happened.

Same thing for Creationism. There is just as much scientific evidence for it as well, but not enough for the purely scientific minded. My faith + the evidence that does exist is enough for me.

To the original post in this thread: just plain dumb. Just because athiest websites promote certain things, doesn&#39;t mean they came about due to athiests, and not all athiests subscribe to those beliefs.

By definition, athiests do not conform to any type of dogma so the whole post was illogical.

I am a Christian and I agree with some of the agendas being pushed by athiests and many other non- Christian groups. So we can&#39;t be pidgeon-holed, either.

[Milton Bradley]

Logical Lunatic&#39;s signature sums up what many Atheists would say if they were eloquent enough.


I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen Roberts


Thanks for that wonderful quote LL.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Mia,

That was my point - evolutionists have decided that since creationism cannot be proven, that means their theory must be correct, forgetting scientists call it a theory for a reason. And the same goes for Creationists.

Wrong on two counts. Number 1, Creationism is not science, has never been and never will be. It can be pseudoscience if you like but tis all about abuse of science. Number 2, Evolution has the gathered evidence and correlates with ALL known data, it has no rival. Period.
Evolution is the pillar of modern biology, if it collapses, so does understanding of natural biologically world...

I belong to the latter group, but don&#39;t get into debate about it because no matter how much research I post, I can&#39;t prove it definitively in the end, so it is a waste of time.

There is evidence for evolution, just not near enough that the world and all it&#39;s inhabitants were created randomly to say with any accuracy that&#39;s waht happened.

We&#39;ve got more evidence to Evolution than that of gravity...

Same thing for Creationism. There is just as much scientific evidence for it as well, but not enough for the purely scientific minded. My faith + the evidence that does exist is enough for me.

There is no scientific evidence in direct support for Creationism. You can present some if you want though.

So please, don&#39;t even try to compare evolution to creationism, the latter is a complete and utter farce.