Global Warming Fraud?

[Beavoid]

Here's a bit o meat for you lefties (and righties) to sink your teeth into.

enjoy
:)

http://www.epi.freedom.org/leipzig.htm

NOTE: The Leipzig Declaration was made by 100 of the world's leading climatologists. These are the scientists who are on the front lines of research into global warming and global climate change. There are less than 200 of these true climatologists in the world who are emminently qualified to elvaluate the reality of the global warming issue. Most of the scientists that are quoted by the media as saying global warming is a reality actually have degrees in other fields--they are not climatologists!





The Leipzig Declaration on Global Climate Change

As scientists, we-along with our fellow citizens-are intensely interested in the possibility that human activities may affect the global climate; indeed, land clearing and urban growth have been changing local climates for centuries. Historically, climate has always been a factor in human affairs - with warmer periods, such as the medieval "climate optimum", playing an important role in economic expansion and in the welfare of nations that depend primarily on agriculture. For these reasons we must always remain sensitive to activities that could affect future climate.

Attention has recently been focused on the increasing emission of "greenhouse" gases into the atmosphere. International discussion by political leaders are currently underway that could constrain energy use and mandate reductions in carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels. Although we understand the motivation to eliminate what are perceived to be the driving forces behind a potential climate change, we believe this approach may be dangerously simplistic. Based on the evidence available to us, we cannot subscribe to the so-called "scientific consensus" that envisages climate catastrophes and advocates hasty actions.

As the debate unfolds, it has become increasingly clear that - contrary to conventional wisdom - there does not exist today a general scientific consensus about the importance of greenhouse warming from rising levels of carbon dioxide. On the contrary, most scientists now accept the fact that actual observations from earth satellites show no climate warming whatsoever. And to match this fact, the mathematical climate models are becoming more realistic and are forecasting temperature increases that are only 30 percent of what was considered the "best" value just four years ago.

We consider the Global Climate Treaty concluded in Rio de Janerio ate the 1992 "Earth Summit" to be unrealistic; its goal is stabilization of atmospheric greenhouse gases, which requires that fuel use be cut by 60 -80 percent worldwide! Energy is essential for all economic growth, and fossil fuels provide today's principal global energy source. In a world in which poverty is the greatest social pollutant, any restriction on energy use that inhibits economic growth should be viewed with caution. For this reason, we consider "carbon taxes" and other drastic control policies - lacking credible support from the underlying science - to be ill-advised, premature, wrought with economic danger, and likely to be counterproductive.

This statement is based on the International Symposium on the Greenhouse Controversy, held in Leipzig, Germany on November 9 - 10, 1995, under the sponsorship of the Prime Minister of the State of Saxony. For further information, contact the Europaeische Akademie fuer Umweltragen (fax +49 - 7071-72939) or The Science and Environmental Policy Project in Fairfax, Virginia

(Fax + 1- 703 352-7535).

Leipzig Declaration Signatories

Abrams, Elliot Penn. State Univ.; Franzle, Otto Univ Kiel, Germany
Apel, John John Hopkins University; Gaynor, John E. Envir. Tech Lab. Boulder, CO
Aubrey, David, Woods Hole Ocean. Inst.; Gerholm, Tor Ragnar Univ. of Stocklolm
Badura, Leslaw Univ. Kattowitz, Poland; Gleeson, Thomas A. aeronomist, Florida State Univ;
Balling, Robert Arizona State Univ; Gold, Thomas Cornell Univ;
Barrett, Jack Kingston-upon -Thames, U.K.; Goodell, H. G. Univ. of Virginia
Bauer, Ernst-Waldemar Esslingen, Germany Goodridge, James D. climatologist, Mendocino, CA
Berg, Hermann Sachsisch Akad, Jena, Germany Groeber, Richard F. Dick's Weather Service, Springfield, OH;
Berning, Warren New Mexico State Univ.; Guttman, Nathaniel B. Nat'l Climactic Data Center, Asheville NC;
Boe, Bruce A. Atm. Resource Brd. ND Hales, J. Vern meteor., Las Vegas NV
Bourne, Arthur Univ. of London Hayden, Howard D. Univ. of Conn.;
Brace, Larry Goddard Space Flight Center, MD; Heyke, H.H. Lichtenwalde, Germany
Bye, Matthew meteorologist, San Francisco; Higatsberger, Michael J. Univ. of Vienna;
Cain, Joseph Florida State Univ; Hogan, A. W. Jour. Of Aerosols, Atm. Chem.;
Clube, S.V. M. Univ. of Oxford Hubbard, William Univ. of Arizona
Courtney, Richard Epsom, UK; Kloke, Adolf Univ. of Berlin
Csanady, G.T. Old Dominion Univ.; Kohler, Max A. meteor. Silver Spring, MD
Cunningham, Robert M.; meteor., Lincoln, Mass. Kolstad, George A. geophys., Laytonsville, MD.;
Decker, Fred meteor., Corvalis, OR Korber, Erich Univ. Tubingen, Germany
Del Re, Giuseppe Rome; Kovach, Robert L. Stanford Univ.;
Dietze, Peter Nurnberg, Germany; Leep, Roy meteor, Tampa, FL
Dyer, Rosemary Phillips Lab.; Legates, David R. Univ. of Oklahoma;
Ellsaesser, Hugh Livermore Nat'l Lab.;
Frank, Neil fmr dir. -Hurricane Center;

[Pale RIder]

This graph shows pretty clearly that the present is quite cool relative to the rest of the earth's history.

For much of the earth's hisory, alligators swam in the marshes in Europe...it would have to get a whole lot warmer than it is now in order to support alligators again...

[BendOverDemocrats]

Hello there,

Man was not on Mars, yet that planet was found to be 10 degrees warmer than it should be.
We've also had many large sun flares this last yar and man had not been to the sun.

So the bunk about global warming caused by man IS BUNK.

What we might be going through is the typical earth cycle of weather.
The earth has had some major temperature changes over the tens of thousands of years.

Could be we are entering an ice-age! That's all.

[Pale RIder]

Actually Alec, we are still emerging from the last ice age. As the graph above shows, the earth's temperature is going to have to climb a great deal simply to reach the median normal temperature.

The global warming scare is exactly that. Created by academic scientists (not to be confused with actual scientists) who need crisis in order to keep the government grant money rolling in.

[Pooeypants]

Now now hold on there, just because we might have a natural increase in world temperature still doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can to reduce the amount of pollutant we spew into the atmosphere, unlike how some people think.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Maybe the holes in the ozone are a result of the tens of thousands of nuclear bombs we've tested on and around the Earth. Just a thought... <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Do you have the math to support how nuclear energy affects the proportain of O2 and O3? Or how the number of sperm whales affects the color of coffee beans? If heat or radiation affected the ozone it would have faded millions of years before man existed.

[Impenitent]

more sperm whales make the coffee beans a tad lighter in shade...

ishmael and ahab liked theirs black

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (roxdog,)
Global warming is a fraud used for environmental land grabs by the UN. A volcano emits more carcinogens in one eruption than if we burned every last drop of oil. If global warming is real, it's not because Billy Bob drives an SUV.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Carcinogens do not cause global warming. Volcanoes on the average are part of the background that has been a normal pattern for eons. It is true that extraudenary eruptions do cause global cooling for a year or two, but they do not effect the over all pattern effecting global temperatures or climate.

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pale RIder,)
Actually Alec, we are still emerging from the last ice age. As the graph above shows, the earth's temperature is going to have to climb a great deal simply to reach the median normal temperature.

The global warming scare is exactly that. Created by academic scientists (not to be confused with actual scientists) who need crisis in order to keep the government grant money rolling in.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

That graph is not a clear picture of what is really happening to the world climate today or in recent history.

[Gracchus]

Global warming, whatever is causing it, is well supported by the evidence. It is likely that it is exacerbated by deforestation, pollution and the destruction of the marine ecosystem. The icecaps are vanishing at an increasing rate and, even more frightening, the permafrost is melting. We can't stop the process. Expect more and more violent storms, crop failures, failure of the fisheries that most of the world depends on for protein, and widespread famine leading to wars and revolutions.

[Sonart]

Quote by: dotcoma A volcano emits more carcinogens in one eruption than if we burned every last drop of oil. If global warming is real, it's not because Billy Bob drives an SUV.

Number one, volcanoes have been active since the earth was created, so whatever gases they create have long ago been factored into the global equilibrium. The explosion of man-made gases has been piled on top of that in the last 200 years.

But more to the point, global warming is not caused by carcinogens, dottie, cancer is. But you knew that. Warming is caused by greenhouse gases, such as CO2, and man dumps about 150 times more CO2 into the atmosphere than the world's volcanoes. An incredibly disingenuous and deceitful post on your part, dottie. Shame on you.

Quote by: Pale RIder This graph shows pretty clearly that the present is quite cool relative to the rest of the earth's history.

Got nowhere with the link -- "site not found" -- so I didn't see this graph. However, there's all kinds of graphs...

Here's global temperatures over the last 400,000 years...



Now, according to that chart, temperatures should be declining right now. But nooo, they're going up...



That's because CO2 levels are higher than they've been for 400,000 years...



After increasing dramatically over the past 200 years...

\

Here's wishing you guys long lives, so in the years to come you can wallow in the shame of not only being proven completely wrong, but 'danger to humanity' wrong.

.

[Prometheus]

I will bet a bunch of golden stars that Beavoid has just read "State of Fear" by Micheal Chrichton. It's a peice of propoganda. The only reason I don't totally condemn it is is that it made some decent points.

I am not willing to discard the notion of global warming (that would be very unscientific), but I doubt that it is nearly as problematic or controllable as many people say it is.

The problem with global warming is that it is a political issue. As is the sad truth, science and politics mix terribly. The result is that you can't know who to trust. Everyone is polarized and biased.

The raw temparature data is very inconclusive on face. The only way to get a trend is to norm it against all kinds of factors. Depending on who massages the data, you can find any trend you want.

Aside from the ambiguous nature of the actual worldwide tempurature fluctuations, there is the question of causality. We theorize that it is CO2. It is a good theory, but I don't totally buy it with the current evidance. We know from geological records that tempuratures fluctuate wildly on this planet. We do not yet understand our unimaginable complex weather systems to make a definitive causal statement.

Wheather or not global warming due to CO2 is true, we should cut emissions anyway. Acid rain, oil wars, and high oil prices are reasons enough.

[Pale RIder]

Hey Prometheus, something that we agree on. How about that. I agree that we should do what we can to reduce the stress on our environment, but not at the cost of our way of life. For the bulk of history, the earth has been so warm that there has been no ice at all at one, or both of the poles. Relative to Earth history, the period that we are living in now is down right chilly.

We have no more power to influence the climate of the earth than we did to influence the path of hurricane Katrina (or any other natural disaster for that matter).

[Starboy]

Quote by: Pale RIder We have no more power to influence the climate of the earth than we did to influence the path of hurricane Katrina (or any other natural disaster for that matter).

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Have you been keeping up on the research regarding algae blooms, iron oxide and desert winds? It wouldn't take all that much for us to have a huge impact on the climate of earth.

Starboy

[Nono]

Sources please.

[Pale RIder]

Quote by: Nono Sources please.

What he said. You, after all, have been known to grossly misinterpret scientific material. You also shouldn't confuse local influence with global influence.

[Boetie]

To say that global warming is a fraud is to imply that scientist and politicians around the world started out with the intention of being fraudulent. No they were very sincere. The question is what impact is man having on the enviornment?

Would you say that those who wanted littering laws passed is being fraudulent because man cannot have an impact on the environment?

On the other hand Corporations are very insincere because they want nothing to interfere with the bottom line and if passing out propaganda and shooting the messenger ie calling them frauds, does the trick then so be it.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Pale RIder Hey Prometheus, something that we agree on. How about that. I agree that we should do what we can to reduce the stress on our environment, but not at the cost of our way of life. For the bulk of history, the earth has been so warm that there has been no ice at all at one, or both of the poles. Relative to Earth history, the period that we are living in now is down right chilly. We have no more power to influence the climate of the earth than we did to influence the path of hurricane Katrina (or any other natural disaster for that matter).

At the cost of our way of life? What makes us more important than all the other life out there?

[Pale RIder]

Quote by: Pooeypants At the cost of our way of life? What makes us more important than all the other life out there?

What makes us less important?

[Sonart]

Quote by: Prometheus Aside from the ambiguous nature of the actual worldwide tempurature fluctuations, there is the question of causality. We theorize that it is CO2. It is a good theory, but I don't totally buy it with the current evidance. We know from geological records that tempuratures fluctuate wildly on this planet. We do not yet understand our unimaginable complex weather systems to make a definitive causal statement.

Temperatures fluctuate, Prometheus, but not that wildly and certainly not on cue. Check the records and you'll see that fluctuations are fairly cyclical. But more significantly, the current rises were predicted 25 years ago, based specifically on man-made causes. Now, 25 years later, those computer models -- based on the hypothesis of anthropogenic global warming -- are proving to be accurate. The climate is warming on cue, as predicted, based strictly on human produced greenhouse gases.

Quote by: Pale RIder We have no more power to influence the climate of the earth than we did to influence the path of hurricane Katrina (or any other natural disaster for that matter).

Then you're not paying attention. Look around you... humans are influencing all kinds of global systems. We're eliminating much of the globes biodiversity in a anthropogenic mass extinction event. We're depleting the seas of once boundless fish, with 3/4 of the world's fisheries collapsing due to overexploitation, over cultivation and deforestation are leading to desertification affecting 70% of the earth's drylands, the destruction of vast coral reef systems worldwide, the depletion and salinization of water tables worldwide and the human induced chemical thinning of the very ozone layer that caps our atmosphere.

When you look at charts of the human population explosion like this, bear in mind that it shows not just the explosion of human population but a corresponding explosion of our technology and our industrial capacity to alter, plunder and pollute our environment.



So the question becomes not how can anyone believe that mere human beings can influence the climate but how can anyone NOT believe it.

.