Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

m3talsmith · Mar 19, 2004, 11:30 am

I work at an ISP. I'm watching new virus' hit sometimes two "new" virus breeds a day, thousands of actually virus hits per hour: and that's not including the amount of spam we get and stop. All of this seems to be escalating and highly unusual amount compared to what I've seen in the past.

I think there's a pattern forming here.

Here's my theory.

I've noticed that in the past virus' were less pervasive but more destructive. Now it's flipped. They are very pervasive and hardly destructive if at all. It seems like the majority of virus' have a political bend to them.

From my perspective it seems like there's a new war going on between programmers and their oppressors. Techs ver. companies like SCO, Microsoft, etc...

I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Samildanach · Mar 19, 2004, 12:04 pm

The strongest political force is influence. The internet allows you to influence people on an unprecedented scale. This is what your virus writers are about now. Messages to try to influence people. Before that it was talented programmers trying to make a name for themselves.

harumscarum · Mar 19, 2004, 02:40 pm

I disagree. Any working "talented" programmer would be smart enough to realize that this is illegal and there are other channels to voice your opinion besides compromising a user’s pc.

Script kiddies are just at war with each other. It is trendy for this anti MS,SCO attitude so viruses that attack to them are not surprising. Most of these kids cost companies more money in 5 minutes then they will earn in their pathetic lives.

If a person did want to be an influence behaving in this childish, illegal manner will not help their cause. Learning how to write a virus is readily available on google or a local IRC channel at your local drug store.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
there's a new war going on between programmers and their oppressors<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
I am a programmer and the only war I see is outsourcing. There will always be the OSS and MS debates between programmers, but again most professionals would not take it to the level of illegal activity.

m3talsmith · Mar 19, 2004, 02:46 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (harumscarum,)
Most professionals would not take it to the level of illegal activity.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I agree with this, but that only covers a small percentage of programmers. I'm talking about the majority; the non-professionals that are in it for the love of it.

eljaysun · Mar 24, 2004, 06:02 pm

To my understanding its all about pride, and creativity. Its way too easy for virus writers to make a simple program that would wreck your hard drive. But finding “fun” ways to get you to install a virus is what its all about. Just as artist could easily take a picture of something, but they’d rather do a sketch.

Suburbanite · Mar 25, 2004, 12:34 am

I heared that some hackers messed up a RIAA website used to track downloaders. I also remember when they turned Al-Jezeera Press into a pro-American website for over a week. Both are impressive to me.

castille · Mar 25, 2004, 03:09 am

Well we have a lot of Chinese hackers and nip attackers waging "war" against each other. One of my friends from old HS enjoyed playing around with Japan sites, defacing them, putting porn on them (tentacles!).

Last week a Japanese university got defaced and the flashing banner "JAPS EAT SHIT" was set on every page, but unfortunately it was shut down rather quickly without making an issue.

Its a bit of fun mostly, and most governments dont notice.

Mar 27, 2004, 07:32 pm

m3t What kind of political bent do these new viruses have?
Also, I agree there are more virus attacks now than ever. The Internet has become a battleground. You might consider working for a Security company. You'd make more money developing security measures than at an ISP.

glenn_w_l · Mar 28, 2004, 06:23 pm

At the time of this posting there were an estimated 6,357,258,925 people in the world, many of whom have access to the net.
So it doesn’t really surprise me that a few individuals among such a vast number of people would have both the technical knowledge and psychological motivation to infect the net with a virus.

But Spatial Designer's strong suspicion that there is a covert war between programmers and software corporations is intriguing.
What are the issues that would foment a war between these groups?

Still, its not hard to imagine that the net has set off alarm bells somewhere. From the point of view of its creators, i imagine the net is becoming a bit of a Frankenstein's Monster, that has so far been corralled by mainstream media, but threatens at any time to escape into the public domain to cause shock and horror.

If i was smart enough to build a useful but potentially dangerous machine, i think i'd also be smart enough to build a good on/off switch.

**Pooeypants** · Apr 4, 2004, 06:56 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)
Well we have a lot of Chinese hackers and nip attackers waging "war" against each other. One of my friends from old HS enjoyed playing around with Japan sites, defacing them, putting porn on them (tentacles!).

Last week a Japanese university got defaced and the flashing banner "JAPS EAT SHIT" was set on every page, but unfortunately it was shut down rather quickly without making an issue.

Its a bit of fun mostly, and most governments dont notice.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
How do you mean by "Unfortunately"? Do you mean that it would've been good to to allow the racism to be displayed?

castille · Apr 7, 2004, 05:05 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
How do you mean by "Unfortunately"? Do you mean that it would've been good to to allow the racism to be displayed?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

It isn't racism - it was provoked by Japanese worship of their war criminals, most of whom were never trialed. Also its a cry against "Japanese cultural imperialism". Its like "American cultural imperialism" except you get cartoons instead of McDonalds.

While I don't particularly support this anti-Japanese hysteria in Asia, you have to remember that Japan is 75% responsible for the actions against them; all they have to do is apologise and pay compensation to everyone they harmed, and the matter will be over. 50 million people murdered isnt something you can dismiss.

**Pooeypants** · Apr 7, 2004, 06:11 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)

It isn't racism - it was provoked by Japanese worship of their war criminals, most of whom were never trialed. Also its a cry against "Japanese cultural imperialism". Its like "American cultural imperialism" except you get cartoons instead of McDonalds.

While I don't particularly support this anti-Japanese hysteria in Asia, you have to remember that Japan is 75% responsible for the actions against them; all they have to do is apologise and pay compensation to everyone they harmed, and the matter will be over. 50 million people murdered isnt something you can dismiss.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Firstly, how did you get the 75% figure?
Secondly, my grandparents had first hand experience of the Japanese invasion, so I do understand the horrors involved. But putting up messages like "JAPS EAT SHIT" will not help to solve anything. Or does it?

castille · Apr 16, 2004, 10:28 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)

But putting up messages like "JAPS EAT SHIT" will not help to solve anything. Or does it?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Neither does putting up messages like "CAPITALISTS ARE EVIL". But thats the beauty of human nature - everyone is a fanatic.

I don't hate Japanese people, but I realise that anti-Japanese feeling in China is generated by Japan's actions. A taxi-driver I spoke to during a recent trip to China said if a Japanese businessman travelled in his taxi he would kill him.
Why? His grandad was a victim of a Japanese "medical experiment", and the same doctor who cut him open alive, is living in a luxurious mansion in the suburbs of Kyoto (he was never imprisoned).

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Secondly, my grandparents had first hand experience of the Japanese invasion, so I do understand the horrors involved.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

No, you don't, and neither do I. We weren't there :)

Where were your parents? I assume they were Chinese, or foreigners in Shanghai? My grandparents bore the brunt of the invasion unfortunately, and they're quite anti-Japanese. I would imagine your grandparents, after watching their fellow countrymen and women raped and mutilated by the Japanese, would habour some poor feelings.

View Poll Results: Is the latest spat of virus' and worms a shallow glory show or does it go deep (read the first p
Deeper	3	23.08%
All for Glory; shallow	4	30.77%
Just script kiddy play	6	46.15%
Other: please read my post	0	0%
Voters: 13. You may not vote

Mar 19, 2004, 11:30 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
m3talsmith Igneous Magma Location: Southern, MI Posts: 400	I work at an ISP. I'm watching new virus' hit sometimes two "new" virus breeds a day, thousands of actually virus hits per hour: and that's not including the amount of spam we get and stop. All of this seems to be escalating and highly unusual amount compared to what I've seen in the past. I think there's a pattern forming here. Here's my theory. I've noticed that in the past virus' were less pervasive but more destructive. Now it's flipped. They are very pervasive and hardly destructive if at all. It seems like the majority of virus' have a political bend to them. From my perspective it seems like there's a new war going on between programmers and their oppressors. Techs ver. companies like SCO, Microsoft, etc... I could be wrong but I don't think so. One vote for for Freedom. One vote for Michael Badnarik for President. One vote that won't be wasted this year.

Mar 19, 2004, 12:04 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	The strongest political force is influence. The internet allows you to influence people on an unprecedented scale. This is what your virus writers are about now. Messages to try to influence people. Before that it was talented programmers trying to make a name for themselves. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Mar 19, 2004, 02:40 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
harumscarum Igneous Magma Posts: 183	I disagree. Any working "talented" programmer would be smart enough to realize that this is illegal and there are other channels to voice your opinion besides compromising a user’s pc. Script kiddies are just at war with each other. It is trendy for this anti MS,SCO attitude so viruses that attack to them are not surprising. Most of these kids cost companies more money in 5 minutes then they will earn in their pathetic lives. If a person did want to be an influence behaving in this childish, illegal manner will not help their cause. Learning how to write a virus is readily available on google or a local IRC channel at your local drug store. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by there's a new war going on between programmers and their oppressors<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I am a programmer and the only war I see is outsourcing. There will always be the OSS and MS debates between programmers, but again most professionals would not take it to the level of illegal activity. under construction....

Mar 19, 2004, 02:46 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
m3talsmith Igneous Magma Location: Southern, MI Posts: 400	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (harumscarum,) Most professionals would not take it to the level of illegal activity.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I agree with this, but that only covers a small percentage of programmers. I'm talking about the majority; the non-professionals that are in it for the love of it. One vote for for Freedom. One vote for Michael Badnarik for President. One vote that won't be wasted this year.

Mar 24, 2004, 06:02 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
eljaysun Sedimentary Rock Location: Kansas City Posts: 7	To my understanding its all about pride, and creativity. Its way too easy for virus writers to make a simple program that would wreck your hard drive. But finding “fun” ways to get you to install a virus is what its all about. Just as artist could easily take a picture of something, but they’d rather do a sketch.

Mar 25, 2004, 12:34 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	I heared that some hackers messed up a RIAA website used to track downloaders. I also remember when they turned Al-Jezeera Press into a pro-American website for over a week. Both are impressive to me.

Mar 25, 2004, 03:09 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Well we have a lot of Chinese hackers and nip attackers waging "war" against each other. One of my friends from old HS enjoyed playing around with Japan sites, defacing them, putting porn on them (tentacles!). Last week a Japanese university got defaced and the flashing banner "JAPS EAT SHIT" was set on every page, but unfortunately it was shut down rather quickly without making an issue. Its a bit of fun mostly, and most governments dont notice. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Mar 27, 2004, 07:32 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	m3t What kind of political bent do these new viruses have? Also, I agree there are more virus attacks now than ever. The Internet has become a battleground. You might consider working for a Security company. You'd make more money developing security measures than at an ISP.

Mar 28, 2004, 06:23 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
glenn_w_l Molten Ash Location: 34.25 S 150.54 E Posts: 39	At the time of this posting there were an estimated 6,357,258,925 people in the world, many of whom have access to the net. So it doesn’t really surprise me that a few individuals among such a vast number of people would have both the technical knowledge and psychological motivation to infect the net with a virus. But Spatial Designer's strong suspicion that there is a covert war between programmers and software corporations is intriguing. What are the issues that would foment a war between these groups? Still, its not hard to imagine that the net has set off alarm bells somewhere. From the point of view of its creators, i imagine the net is becoming a bit of a Frankenstein's Monster, that has so far been corralled by mainstream media, but threatens at any time to escape into the public domain to cause shock and horror. If i was smart enough to build a useful but potentially dangerous machine, i think i'd also be smart enough to build a good on/off switch.

Apr 4, 2004, 06:56 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,471	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,) Well we have a lot of Chinese hackers and nip attackers waging "war" against each other. One of my friends from old HS enjoyed playing around with Japan sites, defacing them, putting porn on them (tentacles!). Last week a Japanese university got defaced and the flashing banner "JAPS EAT SHIT" was set on every page, but unfortunately it was shut down rather quickly without making an issue. Its a bit of fun mostly, and most governments dont notice.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> How do you mean by "Unfortunately"? Do you mean that it would've been good to to allow the racism to be displayed? War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Apr 7, 2004, 05:05 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) How do you mean by "Unfortunately"? Do you mean that it would've been good to to allow the racism to be displayed?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> It isn't racism - it was provoked by Japanese worship of their war criminals, most of whom were never trialed. Also its a cry against "Japanese cultural imperialism". Its like "American cultural imperialism" except you get cartoons instead of McDonalds. While I don't particularly support this anti-Japanese hysteria in Asia, you have to remember that Japan is 75% responsible for the actions against them; all they have to do is apologise and pay compensation to everyone they harmed, and the matter will be over. 50 million people murdered isnt something you can dismiss. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Apr 7, 2004, 06:11 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,471	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,) It isn't racism - it was provoked by Japanese worship of their war criminals, most of whom were never trialed. Also its a cry against "Japanese cultural imperialism". Its like "American cultural imperialism" except you get cartoons instead of McDonalds. While I don't particularly support this anti-Japanese hysteria in Asia, you have to remember that Japan is 75% responsible for the actions against them; all they have to do is apologise and pay compensation to everyone they harmed, and the matter will be over. 50 million people murdered isnt something you can dismiss.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Firstly, how did you get the 75% figure? Secondly, my grandparents had first hand experience of the Japanese invasion, so I do understand the horrors involved. But putting up messages like "JAPS EAT SHIT" will not help to solve anything. Or does it? War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Apr 16, 2004, 10:28 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) But putting up messages like "JAPS EAT SHIT" will not help to solve anything. Or does it?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Neither does putting up messages like "CAPITALISTS ARE EVIL". But thats the beauty of human nature - everyone is a fanatic. I don't hate Japanese people, but I realise that anti-Japanese feeling in China is generated by Japan's actions. A taxi-driver I spoke to during a recent trip to China said if a Japanese businessman travelled in his taxi he would kill him. Why? His grandad was a victim of a Japanese "medical experiment", and the same doctor who cut him open alive, is living in a luxurious mansion in the suburbs of Kyoto (he was never imprisoned). </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Secondly, my grandparents had first hand experience of the Japanese invasion, so I do understand the horrors involved.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> No, you don't, and neither do I. We weren't there :) Where were your parents? I assume they were Chinese, or foreigners in Shanghai? My grandparents bore the brunt of the invasion unfortunately, and they're quite anti-Japanese. I would imagine your grandparents, after watching their fellow countrymen and women raped and mutilated by the Japanese, would habour some poor feelings. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.