Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Samildanach · Mar 9, 2004, 11:43 am

It strikes me that sooner or later within the next twenty years most likely, that we are going to have the ability to introduce brain implants on a rather wide scale. It is also likely with the utilisation of things like bluetooth that we are going to be able to communicate in a telepathic fashion with those within the immediate area thorough these implants.
My question is what do you think that throwing our minds open to all people within society will do for society as a whole?

Mar 9, 2004, 04:58 pm

Your question is irrelevant. The technology does not now exist, nor will it within the next twenty-five years. The best I can forsee is a cybernetic link to a computer network that would only be accessible by individuals with an implant.

antayla · Mar 9, 2004, 05:24 pm

for TRUE telepathy, they would need to know alot more about how the brain works, I think... how to interpret brain signals into digital ones... which I think they WILL do, but it depends if there will be a market for it or not...

Samildanach · Mar 10, 2004, 06:20 am

Dave, one I didn't ask you whether you thought it could or would exist. It may well happen and you just don't have the foresight to see it. Its a hypothetical and was phrased as such so get over yourself. If you want to answewr the actual question then feel free however to critique your answer anyway, they have basic brain interface technology now...google braingate for details. If you agree that that is true then you are agreeing you can currently link the brain to a computer interface. Extrapolating the trend towards miniturization it is also likely that we are not only going to have an interface to a computer network but that the interface will itself contain a VERY powerful computer by todays standards. IF that is also the case then there is a strong possibility that we will find a way to link that computer into our sensorium wiring it to our optic nerves speech centres and internal speech centres if they are different....I'm not sure they are..I would like to know (if there are any neurosurgeons who frequent this forum on the offchance)
If you also accept that then you are in the position where you could immerse youself in a virtual environment hosted on that computer with others over a wireless network. However to get to that point we need to progress in a stepwise fashion where transmitting thoughts or representations of thoughts is likely to become real before full immersion is possible.
Again my question was not really an if, it was more of a when this happens what impact do you think it will have?

ruiner · Mar 11, 2004, 01:56 am

Yes it will happen no doubt.
It will be such a significant change that society will divide into those who embrace the new technology and become part of the collective mind, and those who resist such technology. Then we will run out of water and have to live on the moon

Mozart1220 · Apr 4, 2004, 07:57 pm

Does that mean telepathy will replace cell phones? will it be legal for me NOT to participate? If so I'm all for it. Let these cell phone morons gossip in the chckout lines silently and leave me out of it.

rhod01 · Apr 5, 2004, 05:28 am

If you mean like we'll be one day capable of being a single collective mind: by gosh!

I don't want bigots and right-wingers to be able to hear my thoughts!

Suburbanite · Apr 5, 2004, 05:44 am

AOL Instant Thinker

Black Fox · Apr 7, 2004, 08:37 pm

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Samildanach,)
It strikes me that sooner or later within the next twenty years most likely, that we are going to have the ability to introduce brain implants on a rather wide scale. It is also likely with the utilisation of things like bluetooth that we are going to be able to communicate in a telepathic fashion with those within the immediate area thorough these implants.
My question is what do you think that throwing our minds open to all people within society will do for society as a whole?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Well, I think that the ability to keep one's thoughts private is so treasured by most people that very few people are going to be willing to 'throw their minds open'. It's not just about coming up with the technology, it's about understanding how it will be used.

Anyhow, there are three possible scenarios:

The technology to read/transmit thoughts is effected by additions/extensions to the human nervous system. Then unless there are ways of (1) restricting access to your private thoughts; (2) setting up secure channels between yourself and someone who you wish to communicate with so that there isn't any eavesdropping, then I suspect that not many people will want to use it, or if they do, they will do so under very special circumstances.

The technology can enable people to read the human nervous system in its native state, but it is widely available to practically everyone. I guess lying will become a thing of the past - the question is whether people would adjust their actions to fit their previous lies and behave well, or whether they would adjust their actions to fit their real intent and behave badly.

The technology can enable people to read the HNS in its native state, but it is only available to a few (rich) people. Now this would truly be a scary scenario reminiscent of George Orwell's 1984... makes me thankful that this technolgy is many, many centuries away.

Samildanach · Apr 27, 2004, 05:15 am

Maybe not as far away as you think. Looks like a primitive version could be available soon.
check out todays article on betterhumans.

http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Colum...ID=2004-04-26-4

Impenitent · Apr 27, 2004, 10:22 am

it will turn us all into Riddler clones... remember the batman movie?

PatrickHenry · Apr 27, 2004, 05:41 pm

People like me will be secretly arrested and "disappear."

Lava · Apr 27, 2004, 06:31 pm

Brain reading chips do not imply telepathy. I think in the real world people will choose a device that do not transmit their thoughts unless they ask it to.

There is certainly some demand for computer brain technology, if very little. But those very few that pioneer it will do so strikingly well that more will be inspired to follow. We will soon reach a 2 class society, those with and those without. In time it will be seen as such an important life development step that it will be considered unethical /not/ to give babies this chance in life, and everyone will have it.

But it will not be telepathy.

Regards, Lava!

Samildanach · Apr 29, 2004, 11:37 am

I don't see why it could not be defined as telepathy. Telepathy after all is the transmission of thoughts from one brain to another without speaking regardless of whether there is technology involved or not. True telepathy, from your viewpoint, happens without technology, however your brain having a biological transceiver in it instead of an technologically designed one does not change the result or the concept.

white rice · May 18, 2004, 06:55 pm

Buy a firewall. :)

Compugasm · Jun 2, 2004, 05:34 am

Quote:

Brain reading chips do not imply telepathy.

Yeah, I was thinking it's kinda like a cellphone and you make a call with it. Or, maybe like a "chat" like system where the messages are put out, and you as a subscriber to the message system, can receive those messages or not. Kinda like our forum here.

For me, the catch is "subscriber". Ever wonder why you have to sign a year long contract for service you haven't had the chance to evaluate? Anyway, if these brain chips work in this manner... oh man. How you gonna remove it, cancel your service, or switch providers? Maybe comparing how a future tech will work, based on how it does now is dumb. But I garuntee I will be the last person to have a mind reading chip inserted into my head.

Samildanach · Jun 2, 2004, 07:19 am

No its not stupid at all. I would anticipate a blue tooth type technology for short range comunications and I wouldn't be surprised if you could switch it on or off at will...not to mention controlling devices within the immediate vicinity. In fact a period of time for the device to recharge using the body's built in biological power sources may well be mandatory...could become a good fat burner which will be good enough reason by itself for women to adopt the technology.

Jun 4, 2004, 01:56 pm

if everyone knew what everyone else was thinking the world would fall into chaos, and then it would fall into precise justice liberty and order.

turning ideas into radio waves and deciphering them and turning them into nerve impulses and circuits would be incredibly complex and difficult.

Kyran · Jun 6, 2004, 06:08 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Samildanach,
My question is what do you think that throwing our minds open to all people within society will do for society as a whole?

The problem has never been with people throwing their minds open...it has been their mouths from day one. If anything, people who do not open their minds are the most dangerous.

Mar 9, 2004, 11:43 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	It strikes me that sooner or later within the next twenty years most likely, that we are going to have the ability to introduce brain implants on a rather wide scale. It is also likely with the utilisation of things like bluetooth that we are going to be able to communicate in a telepathic fashion with those within the immediate area thorough these implants. My question is what do you think that throwing our minds open to all people within society will do for society as a whole? I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Mar 9, 2004, 05:24 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
antayla Molten Ash Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 56	for TRUE telepathy, they would need to know alot more about how the brain works, I think... how to interpret brain signals into digital ones... which I think they WILL do, but it depends if there will be a market for it or not... Member of the Free State Project. http://www.freestateproject.com

Mar 10, 2004, 06:20 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	Dave, one I didn't ask you whether you thought it could or would exist. It may well happen and you just don't have the foresight to see it. Its a hypothetical and was phrased as such so get over yourself. If you want to answewr the actual question then feel free however to critique your answer anyway, they have basic brain interface technology now...google braingate for details. If you agree that that is true then you are agreeing you can currently link the brain to a computer interface. Extrapolating the trend towards miniturization it is also likely that we are not only going to have an interface to a computer network but that the interface will itself contain a VERY powerful computer by todays standards. IF that is also the case then there is a strong possibility that we will find a way to link that computer into our sensorium wiring it to our optic nerves speech centres and internal speech centres if they are different....I'm not sure they are..I would like to know (if there are any neurosurgeons who frequent this forum on the offchance) If you also accept that then you are in the position where you could immerse youself in a virtual environment hosted on that computer with others over a wireless network. However to get to that point we need to progress in a stepwise fashion where transmitting thoughts or representations of thoughts is likely to become real before full immersion is possible. Again my question was not really an if, it was more of a when this happens what impact do you think it will have? I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Apr 4, 2004, 07:57 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	Does that mean telepathy will replace cell phones? will it be legal for me NOT to participate? If so I'm all for it. Let these cell phone morons gossip in the chckout lines silently and leave me out of it. Big Jr is watching you!

Apr 5, 2004, 05:28 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
rhod01 Socialist Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 226	If you mean like we'll be one day capable of being a single collective mind: by gosh! I don't want bigots and right-wingers to be able to hear my thoughts! http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1153/gates8lq.jpg Political Compass Position: Economic Left/Right:-9.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian:-7.13

Mar 9, 2004, 04:58 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	Your question is irrelevant. The technology does not now exist, nor will it within the next twenty-five years. The best I can forsee is a cybernetic link to a computer network that would only be accessible by individuals with an implant.

Mar 11, 2004, 01:56 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
ruiner Igneous Magma Posts: 180	Yes it will happen no doubt. It will be such a significant change that society will divide into those who embrace the new technology and become part of the collective mind, and those who resist such technology. Then we will run out of water and have to live on the moon

Apr 5, 2004, 05:44 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	AOL Instant Thinker

Apr 7, 2004, 08:37 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Black Fox Molten Ash Posts: 40	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Samildanach,) It strikes me that sooner or later within the next twenty years most likely, that we are going to have the ability to introduce brain implants on a rather wide scale. It is also likely with the utilisation of things like bluetooth that we are going to be able to communicate in a telepathic fashion with those within the immediate area thorough these implants. My question is what do you think that throwing our minds open to all people within society will do for society as a whole?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Well, I think that the ability to keep one's thoughts private is so treasured by most people that very few people are going to be willing to 'throw their minds open'. It's not just about coming up with the technology, it's about understanding how it will be used. Anyhow, there are three possible scenarios: The technology to read/transmit thoughts is effected by additions/extensions to the human nervous system. Then unless there are ways of (1) restricting access to your private thoughts; (2) setting up secure channels between yourself and someone who you wish to communicate with so that there isn't any eavesdropping, then I suspect that not many people will want to use it, or if they do, they will do so under very special circumstances. The technology can enable people to read the human nervous system in its native state, but it is widely available to practically everyone. I guess lying will become a thing of the past - the question is whether people would adjust their actions to fit their previous lies and behave well, or whether they would adjust their actions to fit their real intent and behave badly. The technology can enable people to read the HNS in its native state, but it is only available to a few (rich) people. Now this would truly be a scary scenario reminiscent of George Orwell's 1984... makes me thankful that this technolgy is many, many centuries away.

Apr 27, 2004, 05:15 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	Maybe not as far away as you think. Looks like a primitive version could be available soon. check out todays article on betterhumans. http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Colum...ID=2004-04-26-4 I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Apr 27, 2004, 10:22 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	it will turn us all into Riddler clones... remember the batman movie? "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Apr 27, 2004, 05:41 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,435	People like me will be secretly arrested and "disappear." "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Apr 27, 2004, 06:31 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Lava Igneous Magma Posts: 716	Brain reading chips do not imply telepathy. I think in the real world people will choose a device that do not transmit their thoughts unless they ask it to. There is certainly some demand for computer brain technology, if very little. But those very few that pioneer it will do so strikingly well that more will be inspired to follow. We will soon reach a 2 class society, those with and those without. In time it will be seen as such an important life development step that it will be considered unethical /not/ to give babies this chance in life, and everyone will have it. But it will not be telepathy. Regards, Lava!

Apr 29, 2004, 11:37 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	I don't see why it could not be defined as telepathy. Telepathy after all is the transmission of thoughts from one brain to another without speaking regardless of whether there is technology involved or not. True telepathy, from your viewpoint, happens without technology, however your brain having a biological transceiver in it instead of an technologically designed one does not change the result or the concept. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

May 18, 2004, 06:55 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
white rice Igneous Magma Posts: 372	Buy a firewall. :) Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Jun 2, 2004, 07:19 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	No its not stupid at all. I would anticipate a blue tooth type technology for short range comunications and I wouldn't be surprised if you could switch it on or off at will...not to mention controlling devices within the immediate vicinity. In fact a period of time for the device to recharge using the body's built in biological power sources may well be mandatory...could become a good fat burner which will be good enough reason by itself for women to adopt the technology. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Jun 4, 2004, 01:56 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Bob_Dobbs Guest Posts: n/a	if everyone knew what everyone else was thinking the world would fall into chaos, and then it would fall into precise justice liberty and order. turning ideas into radio waves and deciphering them and turning them into nerve impulses and circuits would be incredibly complex and difficult.