"scientists Say Prayers Work"

[Sean]

http://english.aljazeera.net/Articles/Scie...rayers+work.htm

Some exerts:

Research carried out in San Francisco this year showed that half of a sample group of 393 patients who were prayed for suffered fewer complications and needed less drug treatment than their counterparts who relied solely on medicine.

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The studies indicate that prayer may help people lock into powers of the human mind which are currently beyond understanding.

[Dislogic]

who knows maybe there is something to mind power :)

personally im skepticle but this seems like a very interesting topic for further study.

[Geoff332]

I've always been a great believer in some level of psychosomatic healing. It doesn't require any mystical explanation: you body heals itself by generating chemical reactions (to knit bones, to kill diseases and so on). We know the brain influences some chemical reactions -- adrenline releases for example. It's relatively easy to believe that somehow the brain/mind influences how the body heals itself. I don't know enough about biochemistry or medicine to know anything about how complex it is for this to happen, but I can see that it's at least conceivable without reference to any spiritual force.

[Dislogic]

True enough but i believe that this is saying that the patients did not pray for themselves but others prayed for them, and they didnt know they were being prayed for. Mind power to heal from one body to another is a totally different idea then then the one you have mentioned and i would imagine that it would be harder to account for.

[RebelWithanAK]

I should think that economist would agree with the study; it's simply extolling the power of positive thinking. I should think that'd been obvious once we figured out that depression was in some cases a clinical illness...

[Cathy]

Without reading the article, my initial thought on the issue is that it's kind of like a placbo effect.

For one, it's now a dead link. "Cannot find server"

Secondly, since when is Al Jazeera a legitimate sorce for scientific information? This is one of those times where you really need to consider the source. When I see it published in a journal, or even in Popular Science, then I'll listen.

i saw a show on this, about how if you meditate on healing yourself it can actually work.

ive always believed in prayer.

[As'rek]

If you set your mind towards something, or strongly believe in something, I think you can make that happen, to an extent. We are only using 10% (Someone correct me) of our brain, so maybe when we so strongly believe in something, a bit more comes into action...I'm not sure, this is probably not true, just 1 of my theories.

[RebelWithanAK]

Well, yeah, something happens: Your brain hemorrages, you go into seizures and you die.

Originally posted by As'rek@09-21-2003 05:45 AM If you set your mind towards something, or strongly believe in something, I think you can make that happen, to an extent. We are only using 10% (Someone correct me) of our brain, so maybe when we so strongly believe in something, a bit more comes into action...I'm not sure, this is probably not true, just 1 of my theories.

technically not everyone uses all of their brains in the same places, and i think the figures are closer to 40%

[Geoff332]

We are only using 10% (Someone correct me) of our brain

That figure is based on a study of rats. Lashley got rats to learn a maze, then started cutting pieces of their brain (a technique called ablation). He found that as long as he left their visual cortex alone, there was very little degredation in performance. He used this to conclude that cognitive processes operated holistically, rather than functionally. The common view of the evidence today is that he was wrong: cognition is essentially functional -- different areas of the brain specialise in different cognitive processes. This is largely because Lashley's results have not been reliably reproduced. There is evidence of funcational substitutability -- the specialised areas of the brain can perform tasks that they are not specialised in. But this is a quite different idea from the notion that we only use a severely limited portion of our brain capacity.

The 10% number has since entered pop-psychology, with relatively little basis in empirical evidence. Most modern neuro-psychologists don't take the idea particularly seriously.

[Geoff332]

I forgot to add: the major source for the 10% figure is usually Dale Carnegie. He claimed that most people used a small proportion of their brain (he said 15%) most of the time. Given that Carnegie has no training or experience in neuro-psychology, it is commonly believed that this number was made up.

A few other studies have offered some sort of vague evidence that supports this mythical figure, but it is generally either unconvincing or poorly interpreted. For example, the CRT scanning of brain activity failed to identify what some parts of the brain were doing if anything. This was often taken to mean that "these areas of the brain do nothing", whereas a more accurate interpretation is "we have no idea what these areas of the brain do".

[xm.bundun]

that just goes to show you how much we really don't know about ourselves.

about the article, i think one study really doesn't prove anything, especially from a soure such as aljazeera.

[xm.bretton]

or maybe god helps them ;)

[Geoff332]

Similar studies have been conducted by the Vatican and published in a variety of sources. The fact it is in Al Jazeera is largely incidental (although it has revealed an interesting bias in the readership).

[xm.bundun]

hmm, largely religious organizations such as the vatican and al jazeera...posting news that religious activities work...

would they ever post anything contradicting themselves?

[xm.bretton]

of course they would.

try reading the catholic encyclopedia. haha.

[xm.bundun]

no thanks. laugh.

[Geoff332]

Well, given that results have ended up in places like the Wall Street Journal (mid 90s), ABC News, Time and receiving funding and attention from some pretty reputable sources, it seems there is something at least worth a second look here.