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Feb 28, 2004, 11:01 pm

I just want someone to explain to me a bit of science. I don't understand how our mind tells our arms to move, legs to move etc. For a bit I thought it might be something like if we look at our arms, they move, etc, but this cannot be the case (blind people can bend things).

I guess my question is: How does our brain tell each part of the body to move? Is it a code? Is it something we are born with? How would we be born with such knowledge?

I know it might sound like a stupid question, but it's been on my mind lately.

Also, does anyone else think we're just a current of electricity/energy that uses the body as a host? Just wondering

I guess this question really got me thinking about the first one (how are arms move). I was thinking about if we found out how to transfer our 'energy' or our conciousness to a machine somehow..could we then teach our mind to work with parts of a machine the same way it works with joints, eyelids, etc?

I hope I made sense. This is a little over my head, but I love to think about it.

Packratt · Feb 28, 2004, 11:51 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dotComa,)
I just want someone to explain to me a bit of science. I don't understand how our mind tells our arms to move, legs to move etc. For a bit I thought it might be something like if we look at our arms, they move, etc, but this cannot be the case (blind people can bend things).<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I guess I'll give an explaination a shot, not that I would be an authoritative source by any means...

The first issue you're grappling with seems to be a question of feedback, (ie. how does one's mind know that the body followed the commands given as expected?) This is a reasonable question, how does a blind person figure out that his or her arm followed the motion that was desired?

The nervous system has various tools that provide feedback, sight being one of them, touch being another. When your arm moves you can feel the tension in the muscles, the stretching of the skin, the air flow, and the motion itself.

Next time you fall asleep in an akward position notice how difficult it is to move an extremety that has "fallen asleep", without the biofeedback loop of the sensory nerves it is difficult to control the motions, is it not? While you can still move your arm it requires greater concentration because for movement, the sense of touch is relied upon more than sight.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by

I guess my question is: How does our brain tell each part of the body to move? Is it a code? Is it something we are born with? How would we be born with such knowledge?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Ever watch a newborn child move? It's quite a reminder of how complex the human nervous system is when you consider that at first all movement is reflexive, for example, the rooting response that causes a baby to purse the lips and turn the head when the cheek is touched. This reflexive response disapears after a while, but it does show that some coordinated movement abilities are innate.

Yet, more complex motor skills are learned, a newborn baby's arms flail in shaky jerks as do their legs, but gradually more dexterous and controlled movements are mastered, like the ability to reach out to a desired object, the eye-hand coordination to grab one's own foot, etc... These are learned movements and not innate, in fact, when one's brain becomes damaged in an area that controls motor functions it is possible to "relearn" the ability to control movement that was previously controlled by that part of the brain.

Thus, some basic rudimentary reflexive movements are innate, but you are not born with the ability to perform more complex movements, these require a wiring change in the brain (learning).

Of course, this brings us to the mechanics of movement in regards to the nervous system. It's fairly complex and I think I could describe it if you would like, but I don't know if that's what you're asking for?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by

I know it might sound like a stupid question, but it's been on my mind lately. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

No question is stupid, only the failure to ask is.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by

Also, does anyone else think we're just a current of electricity/energy that uses the body as a host? Just wondering I guess this question really got me thinking about the first one (how are arms move).<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I personally don't think so, but this does deal more with the idea of "soul" and "spirit", subjects that are admittedly beyond my current level of understanding. The activity of the brain and nervous system is complex, so much so that one could consider it to be 'miraculous'. The brain wires itself depending on the feedback it receives and a part of this wiring controls the motor activities like walking. The brain is both physical mechanical wiring (neuron, axial, and synaptic pathways are always changing, generating new pathways and connections to alter the very way we think. But the other component is the mechanism by which the nueral cells communicate via electro-chemical transference. The neurons produce chemicals that bridge the gaps (synapses) between each cell and when they reach receptors the chemicals produce an electrical current that travels down the axial path to the next neuron which then will produce other chemicals to communicate with other cells or stop communication with other cells down a different pathway.

For example, to twitch a finger a neuron in the brain will fire off a chemical barrage to a synapse down a specific path of neurons which will lead to the specific bundle of nerves in the brain stem which will relay that signal to a specific nerve pathway down the spinal column to the branch that leads to that finger. This electro-chemical chain reaction is repeated thousands to millions of times down the whole path, it's not a wire but a whole series of nerve cells that repeat this signal down to that muscle... Upon triggering that muscle to contract the sensory nerves are triggered and they start the process right back up the chain in the same manner, shooting chemicals between each cell that trigger electrical activity which triggers more chemicals to transfer which causes a chain reaction back to the brain.

It's quite amazing that such a complex system actually works as well as it does. But as you can see, it's not entirely electrical, in fact, the electrical part is only a small part and only triggered by the chemical reactions between cells. So, we are not really electrical beings, but more like complex chemical beings, at least in regards to our nervous systems.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by

I was thinking about if we found out how to transfer our 'energy' or our conciousness to a machine somehow..could we then teach our mind to work with parts of a machine the same way it works with joints, eyelids, etc?
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Well, this is not quite so far fetched, there are experiments (on animals and thus opens our discussion up to questions of ethics in regards to animal testing) already conducted that have shown that one can control mechanical devices with the willed electrical impulses generated by specific neural groups within the brain.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by

I hope I made sense. This is a little over my head, but I love to think about it.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Well, if anything, I hope I cleared something up more than I muddled it up. It is quite a fascinating subject.

tman_ndsu08 · Feb 29, 2004, 12:05 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dotComa,)
I just want someone to explain to me a bit of science. I don't understand how our mind tells our arms to move, legs to move etc. For a bit I thought it might be something like if we look at our arms, they move, etc, but this cannot be the case (blind people can bend things).

I guess my question is: How does our brain tell each part of the body to move? Is it a code? Is it something we are born with? How would we be born with such knowledge?

I know it might sound like a stupid question, but it's been on my mind lately.

Also, does anyone else think we're just a current of electricity/energy that uses the body as a host? Just wondering I guess this question really got me thinking about the first one (how are arms move). I was thinking about if we found out how to transfer our 'energy' or our conciousness to a machine somehow..could we then teach our mind to work with parts of a machine the same way it works with joints, eyelids, etc?

I hope I made sense. This is a little over my head, but I love to think about it.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

An even more interesting question is how can our brains ask such questions as above??

Other animals simply take for granted that their limbs do things that they want. We, however, are always interested in why something works. Why is that?

**Pooeypants** · Feb 29, 2004, 05:45 am

Can I just reiterate about nervous impulses, it's carried by movement of Potassium and Sodium ions perpendicular to the direction of the signal, hence it's not quite an electric current.

Samildanach · Mar 9, 2004, 11:25 am

They generally move at right angles

Apr 2, 2004, 09:25 pm

I'll leave the electro-chemical explanation of how we operate to someone else. I want to answer the question of
"does anyone else think we're just a current of electricity/energy that uses the body as a host?"
I read an article once that explained about how different centers of the brain housed different "frequencies" or vibrations. The article centered on anesthetics and how they operated on the brain, but the spinoff research illustrated how consciousness relied on these different frequencies in those different areas of the brain. I wouldn't say we were energy riding a body that could exist seperate from the body, but we exist, at least partly as energy.

Feb 28, 2004, 11:51 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Packratt Molten Ash Location: Crimetown USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dotComa,) I just want someone to explain to me a bit of science. I don't understand how our mind tells our arms to move, legs to move etc. For a bit I thought it might be something like if we look at our arms, they move, etc, but this cannot be the case (blind people can bend things).<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I guess I'll give an explaination a shot, not that I would be an authoritative source by any means... The first issue you're grappling with seems to be a question of feedback, (ie. how does one's mind know that the body followed the commands given as expected?) This is a reasonable question, how does a blind person figure out that his or her arm followed the motion that was desired? The nervous system has various tools that provide feedback, sight being one of them, touch being another. When your arm moves you can feel the tension in the muscles, the stretching of the skin, the air flow, and the motion itself. Next time you fall asleep in an akward position notice how difficult it is to move an extremety that has "fallen asleep", without the biofeedback loop of the sensory nerves it is difficult to control the motions, is it not? While you can still move your arm it requires greater concentration because for movement, the sense of touch is relied upon more than sight. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I guess my question is: How does our brain tell each part of the body to move? Is it a code? Is it something we are born with? How would we be born with such knowledge?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Ever watch a newborn child move? It's quite a reminder of how complex the human nervous system is when you consider that at first all movement is reflexive, for example, the rooting response that causes a baby to purse the lips and turn the head when the cheek is touched. This reflexive response disapears after a while, but it does show that some coordinated movement abilities are innate. Yet, more complex motor skills are learned, a newborn baby's arms flail in shaky jerks as do their legs, but gradually more dexterous and controlled movements are mastered, like the ability to reach out to a desired object, the eye-hand coordination to grab one's own foot, etc... These are learned movements and not innate, in fact, when one's brain becomes damaged in an area that controls motor functions it is possible to "relearn" the ability to control movement that was previously controlled by that part of the brain. Thus, some basic rudimentary reflexive movements are innate, but you are not born with the ability to perform more complex movements, these require a wiring change in the brain (learning). Of course, this brings us to the mechanics of movement in regards to the nervous system. It's fairly complex and I think I could describe it if you would like, but I don't know if that's what you're asking for? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I know it might sound like a stupid question, but it's been on my mind lately. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> No question is stupid, only the failure to ask is. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Also, does anyone else think we're just a current of electricity/energy that uses the body as a host? Just wondering I guess this question really got me thinking about the first one (how are arms move).<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I personally don't think so, but this does deal more with the idea of "soul" and "spirit", subjects that are admittedly beyond my current level of understanding. The activity of the brain and nervous system is complex, so much so that one could consider it to be 'miraculous'. The brain wires itself depending on the feedback it receives and a part of this wiring controls the motor activities like walking. The brain is both physical mechanical wiring (neuron, axial, and synaptic pathways are always changing, generating new pathways and connections to alter the very way we think. But the other component is the mechanism by which the nueral cells communicate via electro-chemical transference. The neurons produce chemicals that bridge the gaps (synapses) between each cell and when they reach receptors the chemicals produce an electrical current that travels down the axial path to the next neuron which then will produce other chemicals to communicate with other cells or stop communication with other cells down a different pathway. For example, to twitch a finger a neuron in the brain will fire off a chemical barrage to a synapse down a specific path of neurons which will lead to the specific bundle of nerves in the brain stem which will relay that signal to a specific nerve pathway down the spinal column to the branch that leads to that finger. This electro-chemical chain reaction is repeated thousands to millions of times down the whole path, it's not a wire but a whole series of nerve cells that repeat this signal down to that muscle... Upon triggering that muscle to contract the sensory nerves are triggered and they start the process right back up the chain in the same manner, shooting chemicals between each cell that trigger electrical activity which triggers more chemicals to transfer which causes a chain reaction back to the brain. It's quite amazing that such a complex system actually works as well as it does. But as you can see, it's not entirely electrical, in fact, the electrical part is only a small part and only triggered by the chemical reactions between cells. So, we are not really electrical beings, but more like complex chemical beings, at least in regards to our nervous systems. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I was thinking about if we found out how to transfer our 'energy' or our conciousness to a machine somehow..could we then teach our mind to work with parts of a machine the same way it works with joints, eyelids, etc? <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Well, this is not quite so far fetched, there are experiments (on animals and thus opens our discussion up to questions of ethics in regards to animal testing) already conducted that have shown that one can control mechanical devices with the willed electrical impulses generated by specific neural groups within the brain. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I hope I made sense. This is a little over my head, but I love to think about it.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Well, if anything, I hope I cleared something up more than I muddled it up. It is quite a fascinating subject. "...the worker's liberty... is only a theoretical freedom, lacking any means for its possible realisation, and consequently it is only a fictitious liberty, an utter falsehood. -Bakunin

Feb 29, 2004, 12:05 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dotComa,) I just want someone to explain to me a bit of science. I don't understand how our mind tells our arms to move, legs to move etc. For a bit I thought it might be something like if we look at our arms, they move, etc, but this cannot be the case (blind people can bend things). I guess my question is: How does our brain tell each part of the body to move? Is it a code? Is it something we are born with? How would we be born with such knowledge? I know it might sound like a stupid question, but it's been on my mind lately. Also, does anyone else think we're just a current of electricity/energy that uses the body as a host? Just wondering I guess this question really got me thinking about the first one (how are arms move). I was thinking about if we found out how to transfer our 'energy' or our conciousness to a machine somehow..could we then teach our mind to work with parts of a machine the same way it works with joints, eyelids, etc? I hope I made sense. This is a little over my head, but I love to think about it.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> An even more interesting question is how can our brains ask such questions as above?? Other animals simply take for granted that their limbs do things that they want. We, however, are always interested in why something works. Why is that?

Feb 29, 2004, 05:45 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,472	Can I just reiterate about nervous impulses, it's carried by movement of Potassium and Sodium ions perpendicular to the direction of the signal, hence it's not quite an electric current. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Mar 9, 2004, 11:25 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	They generally move at right angles I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Feb 28, 2004, 11:01 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
dotComa Guest Posts: n/a	I just want someone to explain to me a bit of science. I don't understand how our mind tells our arms to move, legs to move etc. For a bit I thought it might be something like if we look at our arms, they move, etc, but this cannot be the case (blind people can bend things). I guess my question is: How does our brain tell each part of the body to move? Is it a code? Is it something we are born with? How would we be born with such knowledge? I know it might sound like a stupid question, but it's been on my mind lately. Also, does anyone else think we're just a current of electricity/energy that uses the body as a host? Just wondering I guess this question really got me thinking about the first one (how are arms move). I was thinking about if we found out how to transfer our 'energy' or our conciousness to a machine somehow..could we then teach our mind to work with parts of a machine the same way it works with joints, eyelids, etc? I hope I made sense. This is a little over my head, but I love to think about it.

Apr 2, 2004, 09:25 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	I'll leave the electro-chemical explanation of how we operate to someone else. I want to answer the question of "does anyone else think we're just a current of electricity/energy that uses the body as a host?" I read an article once that explained about how different centers of the brain housed different "frequencies" or vibrations. The article centered on anesthetics and how they operated on the brain, but the spinoff research illustrated how consciousness relied on these different frequencies in those different areas of the brain. I wouldn't say we were energy riding a body that could exist seperate from the body, but we exist, at least partly as energy.