Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

riska · Feb 24, 2004, 11:09 pm

i would have to say that the invention of cloning was one of the worst things
invented". Animals is one thing but when it comes to the recent cloning of babies thats another story. I don't feel that any human being should be doing God's work.

ceg · Feb 24, 2004, 11:49 pm

Well, for better or for worse, depending on your point-of-view, Pandora's Box is open. There is no closing it now.

Poetic_Justice · Feb 25, 2004, 01:23 am

here's an interesting question, if cloning is "playing God" then does that mean that human beings are gods when they clone someone?

I would say its just bloody dumb to clone animals and humans, we have enough of the buggers over-populating the planet already.

**Pooeypants** · Feb 25, 2004, 05:39 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Poetic_Justice,)
here's an interesting question, if cloning is "playing God" then does that mean that human beings are gods when they clone someone?

I would say its just bloody dumb to clone animals and humans, we have enough of the buggers over-populating the planet already.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
We are a plague...a virus, we can't help ourselves. *laughs like an evil madman*

The more we clone, the better we'll refine the technology, I think using cloning techniques on new organs is a great idea. Although it might mean people will think they can abuse their body (i.e. the liver) and just get a transplant whenever they want/can afford.

NotScientific · Feb 25, 2004, 08:22 am

I think cloning is one great step in technology but I don't really know whether we'll use you in the right way. We'll see

ruiner · Feb 25, 2004, 01:57 pm

If God had meant for us to clone, he would have given us the intelligence to do so

..oh wait

riska · Mar 5, 2004, 01:53 am

pooey pants said

"here's an interesting question, if cloning is "playing God" then does that mean that human beings are gods when they clone someone?

I would say its just bloody dumb to clone animals and humans, we have enough of the buggers over-populating the planet already."

I would have to say NO. The fact that we have gvien ourselves permission to to do gods work does not make us Gods in the process.
God may have given us the abillity and technology to begin clonning but did he "really" want us to do this?????Or did we as humans pass our boundries??

van · Mar 5, 2004, 05:21 am

i wouldn't have a problem with cloning if it was for the sake of finding ways to regenerate lost limbs, etc. like the mouse with an ear on it's back to replace a man's lost ear, etc. this is damn handy stuff, and if it can one day be extended to such amazing feats as growing entire limbs, well that's just brilliant.

cloning entire humans though, that's a frightening concept. i suppose some parents would emotionally benefit from regaining a lost child, but.. while that'd be a nice thing, i guess it's just not acceptable when you consider that the same processes could be used for devious purposes.

**Pooeypants** · Mar 5, 2004, 08:55 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (riska,)
pooey pants said

"here's an interesting question, if cloning is "playing God" then does that mean that human beings are gods when they clone someone?

I would say its just bloody dumb to clone animals and humans, we have enough of the buggers over-populating the planet already."
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Correction, I was quoting Poetic justice on that part.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (riska,)

I would have to say NO. The fact that we have gvien ourselves permission to to do gods work does not make us Gods in the process.
God may have given us the abillity and technology to begin clonning but did he "really" want us to do this?????Or did we as humans pass our boundries??<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Firstly, you'd have to ask yourself, since when did we have a direct line to a God and when did you last ask your god if cloning was allowed?

Secondly, I'm an atheist so your argument holds no validity to me thus far.

Poetic_Justice · Mar 5, 2004, 02:47 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (ruiner,)
If God had meant for us to clone, he would have given us the intelligence to do so

..oh wait<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

killer!
that is EXACTLY what I'm saying!

My only real fear about cloning is that we'll have yet more people cloning and getting surrogate mtohers to have kids, when they could simply adopt one of the many orphans!

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 5, 2004, 04:04 pm

Cloning of specific parts seems fine to me ethically.

Samildanach · Mar 8, 2004, 09:07 am

Cloning is potentially one of the most useful human inventions thus far on the planet. I will need a new body when I get old. Cloning will do that for me piece by piece although I expect there to be far more advanced alternatives by the time I get old. Riska who are you to know Gods mind?, you shy away from what you fear maybe God is trying to turn us into Gods via this evolution thing and cloning is just one step along the way ever consider that?

NotScientific · Mar 8, 2004, 09:12 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (riska,)
i would have to say that the invention of cloning was one of the worst things
invented". Animals is one thing but when it comes to the recent cloning of babies thats another story. I don't feel that any human being should be doing God's work.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Humans are animals in case you didn't know.

Poetic_Justice · Mar 9, 2004, 07:51 pm

we're animals eh?
well then there's nothing wrong with me raping your mother eh? Mere animals don't have morals or ethics, only practicality.

**Pooeypants** · Mar 10, 2004, 05:01 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Poetic_Justice,)
we're animals eh?
well then there's nothing wrong with me raping your mother eh? Mere animals don't have morals or ethics, only practicality.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Biologically speaking, we are animals, there is no denying that.
Bring that question into matter, would "mere animals" produce enough weapons of mass destruction to wipe themselves out? Do you feel superior in the knowledge that we're letting people starve whilst there is a huge surplus of food being produced on our lands?

Poetic_Justice · Mar 10, 2004, 02:49 pm

what does "Biologically Speaking" mean?

Just so you know, I do not dispute your conclusion, i make the same cocnclusion. I do not think we are animals. If an animal were to bite off my arm it would not be 'immoral' it would be an extreme nuisance. So I would not try to bring 'justice' to the animal, I would seek to protect others from it. And if ti were an endangered species I wouldn't even kill it.

But a human who does the same to me unprovokedly is 'immoral' and justice must be meted out. Considering that intuitively I see this existence of justice and morality in humanity, I cannot say that we are animals. We are definitely seperated from them. Regardless of basic similarities in some areas, differences in others create a huge gap between us and animals.

We also share much in common with plants, with inanimate materials, with microscopic and subatomic materials. But we are seperated from them by a wide divide.

I was only being facetious in my statement to notscientific, much as I suspect he was being facetious to riska. His attempt to belittle her argument by those means I see however as flawed. I do not think riska's argument is true, and I myself would disagree with the reasoning of riska, but not on that point. On that point of animals being different from humans, she is entirely correct. Or at least most people would concede that she is.

From Freedom, Prosperity
Dave

**Pooeypants** · Mar 10, 2004, 03:59 pm

Biologically speaking as in how we are put into catagories of life, we humans like catagorise and regulate stuff, so why not catalogue life? Fecking nut cases. Ahem.
Anyway, we belong to the Kingdom Animalia ergo we are animals.

Besides, all life shared a common ancestor, so why the insistence to differentiate? Does humanity have such a big ego that it needs to acknowledge it is a 1337? Well when the next geological "second" ticks we'd probably be gone and all our traces wiped out by nature, life would continue (unless we killed everything :rolleyes: ), and all will be peaceful again.

Poetic_Justice · Mar 10, 2004, 04:04 pm

what's 1337 mean? Sorry, I'm not indoctrinated in internet slang.

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 10, 2004, 04:24 pm

1337= leet

Poetic_Justice · Mar 10, 2004, 05:32 pm

leet???

Feb 25, 2004, 05:39 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,468	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Poetic_Justice,) here's an interesting question, if cloning is "playing God" then does that mean that human beings are gods when they clone someone? I would say its just bloody dumb to clone animals and humans, we have enough of the buggers over-populating the planet already.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> We are a plague...a virus, we can't help ourselves. laughs like an evil madman The more we clone, the better we'll refine the technology, I think using cloning techniques on new organs is a great idea. Although it might mean people will think they can abuse their body (i.e. the liver) and just get a transplant whenever they want/can afford. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Feb 25, 2004, 08:22 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
NotScientific Molten Ash Location: Mauritius Posts: 35	I think cloning is one great step in technology but I don't really know whether we'll use you in the right way. We'll see I'm Columnist here at Volconvo.com and also at BackWash.com. Check my columns in the Science forum then.

Mar 5, 2004, 08:55 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,468	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (riska,) pooey pants said "here's an interesting question, if cloning is "playing God" then does that mean that human beings are gods when they clone someone? I would say its just bloody dumb to clone animals and humans, we have enough of the buggers over-populating the planet already." <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Correction, I was quoting Poetic justice on that part. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (riska,) I would have to say NO. The fact that we have gvien ourselves permission to to do gods work does not make us Gods in the process. God may have given us the abillity and technology to begin clonning but did he "really" want us to do this?????Or did we as humans pass our boundries??<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Firstly, you'd have to ask yourself, since when did we have a direct line to a God and when did you last ask your god if cloning was allowed? Secondly, I'm an atheist so your argument holds no validity to me thus far. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Mar 5, 2004, 02:47 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Poetic_Justice Igneous Magma Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 209	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (ruiner,) If God had meant for us to clone, he would have given us the intelligence to do so ..oh wait<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> killer! that is EXACTLY what I'm saying! My only real fear about cloning is that we'll have yet more people cloning and getting surrogate mtohers to have kids, when they could simply adopt one of the many orphans!

Mar 8, 2004, 09:07 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	Cloning is potentially one of the most useful human inventions thus far on the planet. I will need a new body when I get old. Cloning will do that for me piece by piece although I expect there to be far more advanced alternatives by the time I get old. Riska who are you to know Gods mind?, you shy away from what you fear maybe God is trying to turn us into Gods via this evolution thing and cloning is just one step along the way ever consider that? I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Feb 24, 2004, 11:09 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
riska Sedimentary Rock Posts: 4	i would have to say that the invention of cloning was one of the worst things invented". Animals is one thing but when it comes to the recent cloning of babies thats another story. I don't feel that any human being should be doing God's work.

Feb 24, 2004, 11:49 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
ceg Sedimentary Rock Posts: 13	Well, for better or for worse, depending on your point-of-view, Pandora's Box is open. There is no closing it now.

Feb 25, 2004, 01:23 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Poetic_Justice Igneous Magma Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 209	here's an interesting question, if cloning is "playing God" then does that mean that human beings are gods when they clone someone? I would say its just bloody dumb to clone animals and humans, we have enough of the buggers over-populating the planet already.

Feb 25, 2004, 01:57 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
ruiner Igneous Magma Posts: 180	If God had meant for us to clone, he would have given us the intelligence to do so ..oh wait

Mar 5, 2004, 01:53 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
riska Sedimentary Rock Posts: 4	pooey pants said "here's an interesting question, if cloning is "playing God" then does that mean that human beings are gods when they clone someone? I would say its just bloody dumb to clone animals and humans, we have enough of the buggers over-populating the planet already." I would have to say NO. The fact that we have gvien ourselves permission to to do gods work does not make us Gods in the process. God may have given us the abillity and technology to begin clonning but did he "really" want us to do this?????Or did we as humans pass our boundries??

Mar 5, 2004, 05:21 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
van Sedimentary Rock Location: melb.au Posts: 4	i wouldn't have a problem with cloning if it was for the sake of finding ways to regenerate lost limbs, etc. like the mouse with an ear on it's back to replace a man's lost ear, etc. this is damn handy stuff, and if it can one day be extended to such amazing feats as growing entire limbs, well that's just brilliant. cloning entire humans though, that's a frightening concept. i suppose some parents would emotionally benefit from regaining a lost child, but.. while that'd be a nice thing, i guess it's just not acceptable when you consider that the same processes could be used for devious purposes.

Mar 5, 2004, 04:04 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Cloning of specific parts seems fine to me ethically.

Mar 8, 2004, 09:12 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
NotScientific Molten Ash Location: Mauritius Posts: 35	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (riska,) i would have to say that the invention of cloning was one of the worst things invented". Animals is one thing but when it comes to the recent cloning of babies thats another story. I don't feel that any human being should be doing God's work.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Humans are animals in case you didn't know. I'm Columnist here at Volconvo.com and also at BackWash.com. Check my columns in the Science forum then.

Mar 9, 2004, 07:51 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Poetic_Justice Igneous Magma Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 209	we're animals eh? well then there's nothing wrong with me raping your mother eh? Mere animals don't have morals or ethics, only practicality.

Mar 10, 2004, 05:01 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,468	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Poetic_Justice,) we're animals eh? well then there's nothing wrong with me raping your mother eh? Mere animals don't have morals or ethics, only practicality.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Biologically speaking, we are animals, there is no denying that. Bring that question into matter, would "mere animals" produce enough weapons of mass destruction to wipe themselves out? Do you feel superior in the knowledge that we're letting people starve whilst there is a huge surplus of food being produced on our lands? War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Mar 10, 2004, 02:49 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Poetic_Justice Igneous Magma Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 209	what does "Biologically Speaking" mean? Just so you know, I do not dispute your conclusion, i make the same cocnclusion. I do not think we are animals. If an animal were to bite off my arm it would not be 'immoral' it would be an extreme nuisance. So I would not try to bring 'justice' to the animal, I would seek to protect others from it. And if ti were an endangered species I wouldn't even kill it. But a human who does the same to me unprovokedly is 'immoral' and justice must be meted out. Considering that intuitively I see this existence of justice and morality in humanity, I cannot say that we are animals. We are definitely seperated from them. Regardless of basic similarities in some areas, differences in others create a huge gap between us and animals. We also share much in common with plants, with inanimate materials, with microscopic and subatomic materials. But we are seperated from them by a wide divide. I was only being facetious in my statement to notscientific, much as I suspect he was being facetious to riska. His attempt to belittle her argument by those means I see however as flawed. I do not think riska's argument is true, and I myself would disagree with the reasoning of riska, but not on that point. On that point of animals being different from humans, she is entirely correct. Or at least most people would concede that she is. From Freedom, Prosperity Dave

Mar 10, 2004, 03:59 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,468	Biologically speaking as in how we are put into catagories of life, we humans like catagorise and regulate stuff, so why not catalogue life? Fecking nut cases. Ahem. Anyway, we belong to the Kingdom Animalia ergo we are animals. Besides, all life shared a common ancestor, so why the insistence to differentiate? Does humanity have such a big ego that it needs to acknowledge it is a 1337? Well when the next geological "second" ticks we'd probably be gone and all our traces wiped out by nature, life would continue (unless we killed everything :rolleyes: ), and all will be peaceful again. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Mar 10, 2004, 04:04 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Poetic_Justice Igneous Magma Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 209	what's 1337 mean? Sorry, I'm not indoctrinated in internet slang.

Mar 10, 2004, 04:24 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	1337= leet

Mar 10, 2004, 05:32 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Poetic_Justice Igneous Magma Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 209	leet???