Is Nasa A Flightless Bird?

[MerlinsByte]

I come of age in the 60s NASA was a strong can do agency, after the moon, the manned exploration of mars was only, perhaps only ten years away, 2005 was the date of the first robotic interstellar mission. Now in the waning season of 2005 we have a crappy space shuttle that has never lived up to expectations, hell it didn’t even live up to the most pessimistic of predictions. When a shuttle goes up (if it does go up) we hold our collective breaths and hope that it doesn’t become expensive toast when it comes down.

We are tethered to earth by a “international space station” in low earth orbit so “near” that we could drive to in a few hours by automobile. (that is if we could drive straight up). We have no heavy launch boosters, only a over complicated , low power, delta booster with a multitude of strap on boosters. Strap on(s) are good for only one thing and it ‘tain’t rockets.

We need leadership at NASA. We must now ask the Russians to hoist anything of real weight in orbit because we can’t! We should put the shuttle in a museum, or just shoot it and let it die. We need heavy launch capability. How difficult would it be to design a two stage , heavy launch booster, with the 1st stage a solid propellant disposable, and a liquid fueled single engine (kiss) second stage?

Where have all the (space) cowboys gone? I’m tired of sitting on my pathetic ass and looking through my telescope and wishing we were THERE. I've been doing that for 30 years and my ass is sore!

We should be developing nuclear engines now, we should be going to mars or Jupiter via manned missions, now. Our destiny is to be a space faring race. As is now we are going to vaporize our dumb asses in a war fought over nothing ,or drown in our own toxic waste before we learn to fly again. Its a sad state of affairs that we are in and the worse part is the apathy and ignorance of the average government goon and American citizen.

[Osborn F Enready]

Where is the money going to come from?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: MerlinsByte Our destiny is to be a space faring race

You really think so? The earth and its environment are totally comfortable for humanity, while space is alien and devoid of life.

Osborn, good question. Private enterprise if Washington will get outta the way. There's money to be made in space, IMHO.

[MerlinsByte]

Where is the money going to come from?

mb writes...Well, we sell the shuttle fleet for scrap ....; } > Really, NASA's budget should be increased! In 1969, at the height of the Apollo Moon landing program NASA received about four cents out of each dollar in the national budget. Today, that is down to just over one cent. One thin copper plated zinc penny!

NASA's budget for 1991 is $13.8 billion, or 1.10% of the Federal Budget of $1.25 trillion. This means it costs an average taxpayer about $69 per year, or $5.78 per month. Not a huge sum.

Really we can fund huge entitlement programs. We can fund wars. We can fund all sorts of worthless programs. when we fund space programs we get back much more than the original cost of that program.

[tman_ndsu08]

The government has no more business in space.

Let the private sector have it for christsakes. Stop wasting my money on your stupid (but incredibly expensive) science projects!!!

[MerlinsByte]

You really think so? The earth and its environment are totally comfortable for humanity, while space is alien and devoid of life.

When the first trans oceanic explorers ventured across the abyss the technological challenge was probably as great as ours was in 1969 when we went to the moon. So the challenge of space is a subjective one, that only requires will power to become not a challenge but a routine endeavor.

If I were the earth, I would not be comfortable with humanity! In between shitting in my water and gouging holes in my skin with H bombs, you insist on growing like cancer at an exponential rate. My capacity to feed you little parasites is a delicate balance between starving some of you to death while allowing others with the money to live to eat Jenny Craig diet food to remain a size 44. You burn my carbon I've stored for millions of years to pollute the air you breathe. Don't get me started, comfortable indeed!

[MerlinsByte]

Let the private sector have it for christsakes. Stop wasting my money on your stupid (but incredibly expensive) science projects!!!

see what I mean about .....non thinking people

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: MerlinsByte Don't get me started, comfortable indeed!

Heh, you misunderstood my argument. I didn't mean the earth is comfortable with us, but that we are comfortable here!

Should we be better stewards of the earth we inhabit? Yes! Let me ask you this: How does the earth feel about rocket exhaust? http://books.nap.edu/html/rocket/summary.html

http://www.stormingmedia.us/keywords...t_exhaust.html

[Prometheus]

Maybe I'm missiong your point here, is this what you're getting at?

[Chris]

Quote by: PatrickHenry You really think so? The earth and its environment are totally comfortable for humanity, while space is alien and devoid of life.

How do you know for sure? There are as many known stars out there as there are grains of sand on earth. We have discovered more than 150 other planets already, who is to say that there aren't any others hospitable for life? To say not would be close-minded. What are you going to do if an asteroid 30 miles long comes smashing into the earth? A total planet killer? Are you just going to twiddle your thumbs and just say its "Gods Plan"? Its really Gods plan to kill all forms of life on a planet?

Space and the space program is essential to advance science, understanding and technology for us to explore and develop a way of protecting our planet from killer asteroids in the future.

[MerlinsByte]

mb writes...Prometheus, nice, especially the dodo bird! And I did misunderstand your point there Patrick Henry. I read the first page that you provided and it concluded that there wasn't enough evidence to come to a consensus (on the toxic effects of rocket exaust). I have often wondered about that aluminum oxide and whatever else is in the shuttles exhaust. Its ugly. I wouldnt want to huff any of it!

The Saturn V used Hydrogen and LOX, much cleaner.

I agree that there are some things here on good ole earth that should take priority (over space research and exploration) but not very much. For all the ridicule and bitching I do about science and how corrupt it is I actually think pure scientific research, such as high energy particle research ,and space, are the two most important fields of science and must be given top priority for national security .

Today it is more important than any time in history to be at the top of our game in all sciences. If we fail to keep our thin edge in computer science, space, and particle physics research just to name a few, it is very likely that our enemies will gain this technology and use it against us. This is the first time in the history of the world that a small country or group of people could develop something as simple as a computer infrastructure attack and bring a superpower to its knees.

oh well I didn't mean to get so serious on a fine Sunday, the lords day....oops....; } >

[MerlinsByte]

Space and the space program is essential to advance science, understanding and technology for us to explore and develop a way of protecting our planet from killer asteroids in the future

.


And killer man! It would be a cosmic tragedy (or maybe a cosmic joke) if we committed global suicide by burning our selves to death by slinging multi megton nukes back and forth. Well, maybe we will wise up? But, a large impact is going to happen just the date of impact is in question. Ive often thought that gods plan was for us use our brain and to get off earth, which is just boring. really. There is nothing stopping us from becoming something wonderful a new race or even a multitude of races in the distant future, and if this part of the universe is lifeless, we could bring life to it as well.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: MerlinsByte see what I mean about .....non thinking people

How can anyone ever justify the amount of money that is wasted by NASA?!

[SteveA]

As much as I'd like to see people living on another planet, there does seem to be something wrong when we can't even keep 30 year old technology in the air.

I seriously believe we've lost a lot of good engineering talent. It's nice that Windows does so much but few people really know what's inside anymore. It used to be people built their own computers practically, not that we should return to that but the analogy is likely similar for the Shuttle. A lot of older engineers have passed away who helped develop the fundamentals and the younger generation isn't taught much of this anymore. (I'll refrain from pointing fingers solely at public education because there are a lot of other issues involved as well)

Assuming we landed men on the moon in the 70s, it's also rather amazing that we have such problems with landing successfully small unmanned rovers, though the costs are orders of magnitude in difference so that's a plus but still ... how did we get men safely to the moon, and back while we can't even get a piece of metal to hit and survive. (Yes, it's always easier being on the outside and complaining though instead of on the inside helping ... but then again if you're one of the people expected to pay for it, then you at least deserve a voice in the matter).

Overall, I love space exploration but think we'll find better returns in the long run letting commerical markets continue to improve technolgies instead of using a lot of engineering talent for questionable returns. Most people, I'd assume, would prefer to see engineers working on something commercial like improving housing construction technology so housing prices drop instead (and freeing up these resources would lower government costs/taxes too so that's a side benefit).

[rez]

The universe is our playground, we should explore.

[MerlinsByte]

Yes, Steve, (and rez) I agree that much of the talent is gone. And much of the reason that we went to the moon in the first place is also gone. Most if not all of the early space program was prompted by military concerns. Are we now lulled into a complacent stupor much as we were in the 50's when sputnik announced that we were a 2nd rate technological power, and just Maybe a 2nd rate military power?

Oh well ,maybe north Korea and or China will hail us form plains Mars to again awake, as one warlord called us, the sleeping giant. If that should happen, I would wish that they dont call collect, or with a nuke.

mb

[MerlinsByte]

How can anyone ever justify the amount of money that is wasted by NASA?!

http://www.empowermentzone.com/spacefaq.txt

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: MerlinsByte http://www.empowermentzone.com/spacefaq.txt

This means it costs an average taxpayer about $69 per year, or $5.78 per month.

That's 69 too many.

[MerlinsByte]

That's 69 too many.

Er,...dont wear your finger tips to nubs responding to my thread there T man. Why dont you give me something to trounce you with instead of three word sentences. And did you read the hyper link I provided?

Every dollar spent on the moon mission has been repaid many times over. Not only is our poor showing in space technology a national tragedy, something that was as bad or worse was the cancellation of the super-conducting super-collider. we have morphed into couch slugs, and mental x box morons conditioned to instant gratification and become so apathetic as to deserve what the future brings us, "and it dont look too good." In fact it looks rather crappie at this point in time. Get on your play station 2 and try to stop the next comet or asteroid, at least you will be entertained when vaporized.

http://oregonstate.edu/instruction/b...scussion8.html

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: MerlinsByte Er,...dont wear your finger tips to nubs responding to my thread there T man. Why dont you give me something to trounce you with instead of three word sentences. And did you read the hyper link I provided? Every dollar spent on the moon mission has been repaid many times over. Not only is our poor showing in space technology a national tragedy, something that was as bad or worse was the cancellation of the super-conducting super-collider. we have morphed into couch slugs, and mental x box morons conditioned to instant gratification and become so apathetic as to deserve what the future brings us, "and it dont look too good." In fact it looks rather crappie at this point in time. Get on your play station 2 and try to stop the next comet or asteroid, at least you will be entertained when vaporized. http://oregonstate.edu/instruction/b...scussion8.html

Any goods or services that we have today would still be here today if we never had a space program.

The market would demanded them and thus they would've been invented.


I'm not against private space travel. But no one should be forced to pay for this garbage.