Is a fertilized ovum a living member of its perticular species?

[carriew]

no read what I said again
stem cells come from zygotes not the other way around. they made something simiular to stem cells and I dont think it would have turned into a zygote/baby/human being.

ok heres a question. what if they found out how to regrow brain tissue from his own skin and put it into an altzemers patient or a stroke victim and he was back to his old person as you would say. would this change your view on anything?

what I just found is that its not alive it got so far they transplanted it onto a mouse and grew bone muscle and fat not a human being...

and yes if they killed it and it would have /could have finished growing yes they would have killed a human being but it was like stemcells. not a human being.

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew no read what I said again

Okay. How does that change anything. If I understood you correctly you said that the researchers did not use embryos, which I agreed with and that you did not read the research. And I believe you. But are you now saying that a zygote is not a human being? Or are you saying that the zygote created by the researchers would never develop into a baby? And if you are saying this how do you know. According to the reports it was developing exacly like a normal zygote. They stopped it. Are you saying there are different kinds of zygotes now?

Starboy

[carriew]

it was not a zygote it was tissue it would not have turned into a human being. if they can do it the second it becomes a zygote it is a human being like I said before whether it is from a egg/sperm union or a trick of science it will grow all tissues and develop all the way if implanted not just like stem cells.

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew ok heres a question. what if they found out how to regrow brain tissue from his own skin and put it into an altzemers patient or a stroke victim and he was back to his old person as you would say. would this change your view on anything?

No. Why would it? I do not consider a zygote to be a human being. And it is funny that you should mention that because I think they are already doing that. There is a very long list of applications of stem cells for helping people.

what I just found is that its not alive it got so far they transplanted it onto a mouse and grew bone muscle and fat not a human being...

I have no problem with this. As far as I am concerned they are all cells and I do not think that cells in and of themselves are human beings.

and yes if they killed it and it would have /could have finished growing yes they would have killed a human being but it was like stemcells. not a human being.

Well there is no way to know without having them do it and they have said that they will not do it so maybe until some rogue researcher does it then it will remain a moot point. But in the particular research I am refering to the doctors used the eggs from young girls that had been injected with a hormon to increase their egg production. They then replaced the egg DNA with the DNA from a skin cell. They said that the resulting zygotes behaved almost identically to a normal zygote. It began to develop exactly as a zygote in when it reached the stage where it started developing stem cells they stopped it and started using the stem cells to create other types of cells. They found that the stem cells derived from this process were as viable as stem cells taken from normally developing embryos.

Starboy

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew it was not a zygote it was tissue it would not have turned into a human being. if they can do it the second it becomes a zygote it is a human being like I said before whether it is from a egg/sperm union or a trick of science it will grow all tissues and develop all the way if implanted not just like stem cells.

So all that stuff about a human being starting at conception was bull? Or have you changed the definition of conception? It is now the egg that makes it a human being? What will you then say when they figure out how to turn a non-egg cell into an egg? Certainly you must realize that you are not being as honest and open about all this as you said you would be.

Starboy

[carriew]

Quote by: Starboy So all that stuff about a human being starting at conception was bull? Or have you changed the definition of conception? It is now the egg that makes it a human being? What will you then say when they figure out how to turn a non-egg cell into an egg? Certainly you must realize that you are not being as honest and open about all this as you said you would be. Starboy

they grew like stem cells not zygotes. they did not make zygotes.

I am looking up this now i havent found it. please provide the link for me to see....

the killed the embryo human being they made for its stem cells and then used them.

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew they grew like stem cells not zygotes. they did not make zygotes. I am looking up this now i havent found it. please provide the link for me to see....

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05140/507786.stm

The South Korean team extracted the genetic material from an unfertilized egg and replaced it with the DNA-containing nucleus of a skin cell. With a little scientific encouragement, the altered egg grew, as an embryo would. However, its growth halted at a very early stage when the scientists removed its stem cells for culture.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/20/82352/0192

What the South Korean team has been able to do is create human embryonic stem cells with the genetic material of particular patients. With cloning, also called nuclear transfer, the scientists take a cell from a patient, remove the cell's nucleus containing the genetic material, and place this nucleus in an egg cell that has had its own nucleus removed. This hybrid cell is then stimulated to grow for several days, until it becomes a nearly featureless ball of about 200 cells, a type of embryo known as a blastocyst.

Starboy

[carriew]

yes lol I just found something too. about what they did with dolly I am sure if they did it enough times they would make a baby and that they have made embryos. as soon as it starts dividing it a human being. it should not be killed. it should be implanted into someone and have a chance to be brought to term and live. experminting on it furhter inhm is wrong. heres the link I found along with your quotes.i found them too.
http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=...on=view&ID=426

I always said once it is an embryo it is a human being.

if they figure out how to take my egg and take its dna out and stick two sperm together I would still say its a human being.

[Starboy]

Good. You are consistent.

Starboy

[carriew]

i would say it would be very not fair to any deformed human that arose from such experimentation to do this on a regular basis.. frightening.

also I think it would be wrong to take the nucleus out of a fertilized egg to do this.

they take out the 13 cromesomes an egg has. they use an enucleated cell that is not fertilized to do what you are saying. so they arent killing anything untill they kill the clone or whatever dna combo make the zygote.

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew i would say it would be very not fair to any deformed human that arose from such experimentation to do this on a regular basis.. frightening.

I guess it all depends on how good they get at it. They already clone cows commercially. No one seems to get too upset over that. Except those people that get the creeps from cloning. Of course they seem to overlook for some reason that identical twins are also clones.

Starboy

[carriew]

i would be arfaid if they did it too much it would stop the species from evolving.
and I dont know if I would support such research. in fact I dont think I would. though it is facinating. I would be afraid of their failures. becasue they are human beings...

[Starboy]

I agree we should always be careful. But the cat has been out of the bag for a long time. We are as successful species as we are because we have learned to control our enviroment. We, our life, and our genome are also part of that environment. And as our population reaches, 12 billion, 24 billion, who knows maybe 100 billion, we will either crash the planet or we will be doing a whole lot more than just aborting babies, changing genomes and making viable zygotes from scratch. People are in denial. The world has changed profoundly and they never got the memo.

Starboy

[carriew]

nice to see ya back!

would be nice if they get that far they can figure out a better way of birth control to stop abortions all togther. like transplanting them into someone else!

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew nice to see ya back!

Thanks! How did you know I was gone?

would be nice if they get that far they can figure out a better way of birth control to stop abortions all togther. like transplanting them into someone else!

I am afraid it will take something more drastic than that. People will be automatically sterilized at birth and there will be some method of deciding who gets to have kids and who does not. Life will be stopped before it ever gets a chance to start.

Starboy

[Starboy]

I would also be interesting to see how we adapt to such a situation. My bet is if it went on long enough we would see a new breed of homo that reproduced asexually.

Starboy

[carriew]

it said next to your name that you were suspended.

I dont think that would be good about sterilizing people. I know how broken I felt aftr I had my tubes tied. it sucked.

I would love it if they found a real way to prevent pregnancy not sterilization but birth control that works all the time would be a nice change...

its probably just a matter of time before we reproduce asexually anyhow I think.. especially how fertilized eggs can fuse and make just 1 person and now they can do the skin cell thing.. I wonder how long it will take before 2 eggs can fuse and make a baby themselves...by themselves no science that is...