Anti- Gravity

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Samildanach, Thats probably because we don't have transluminal sensors built yet. Tachyons could be bouncing.

I knew someone would bring up Tachyons.
What are transluminal sensors btw? What we need is to detect a reaction or status change due to the presence of tachyon emissions.

[Impenitent]

how does nothing expand? the distance between stars grows greater... maybe... does that mean that the nothing between point a (star a) and point b (star b) at t1 is greater than the nothing between between point a (star a) and point b (star b) at t2 when the stars are moving apart? measuring nothing in light years is still a measurement of nothing... there is no ether...

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Impenitent, how does nothing expand? the distance between stars grows greater... maybe... does that mean that the nothing between point a (star a) and point b (star b) at t1 is greater than the nothing between between point a (star a) and point b (star b) at t2 when the stars are moving apart? measuring nothing in light years is still a measurement of nothing... there is no ether...

Expansion is that of the Universe, the spacetime...

The vacuum is far from empty, there are plenty of scattered particles and it still bares the background radiation from Big Bang event.

[Impenitent]

you never answered the question... and the vacuum is that which exists between the particles...

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Impenitent, you never answered the question... and the vacuum is that which exists between the particles...

Considering your question doesn't make sense, I don't know how else to answer it. You asked how does nothing expand and I tell you that Spacetime is not nothing.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Vaccuum is measurable, therefore it is not nothing. Is there truly such a thing as nothing when everything is composed of something , even that elusive nothing. I know I am naieve, but isnt everything real even that which is fake?
Back to the question...How does the universe expand if the universe includes everything...if the expansion fills a void, there would be frontiers beyond our finite perception but not neccesarily infinately. There could be a point where time and space, as we know it, stop. Maybe that is the point where God wakes up and realizes we are all just a bad dream :rolleyes:

[Impenitent]

there is nothing... vacuum...

there are "things" floating in the nothing... the vacuum...

the nothing... the vacuum is the "boundary" of the universe...

the space between "things" is increasing, so one incorrectly claims the universe is expanding...

the space between things, the nothing... the vacuum... is measured only by the things that exist within it...

the space outside of things cannot be measured...

[Pooeypants]

Sorry but you're not making any sense. Are you saying that Spacetime is nothing?

And if all/most objects are moving away from us, and being that the boundary is edge of the known universe then one can only assume the Universe is expanding.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

domino
Your theory falls apart the moment you leave Earth. If it was all anti-gravity orbits would be shaped quite differently.

earlier post
Gravity is determined by mass and distance, density has nothing to do with it. Density does affect surface acceleration because it means you are closer to the center of mass.

[Impenitent]

Originally posted by Pooeypants, Sorry but you're not making any sense. Are you saying that Spacetime is nothing? *no space is nothing... And if all/most objects are moving away from us, and being that the boundary is edge of the known universe *there is no edge... there is nothing... nothing here, nothing there, nothing, nothing nothing... between objects there is nothing... that nothing you can measure... but if you travel from an object into nothing with no object to stop your travels, how do you know when you have gotten to the end of nothing?... you cannot know... there is nothing, and no end to nothing... then one can only assume the Universe is expanding. *there is no edge of nothing to expand

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Impenitent, *no space is nothing... *there is no edge... there is nothing... nothing here, nothing there, nothing, nothing nothing... between objects there is nothing... that nothing you can measure... but if you travel from an object into nothing with no object to stop your travels, how do you know when you have gotten to the end of nothing?... you cannot know... there is nothing, and no end to nothing... *there is no edge of nothing to expand

This is where you are mistaken, at the quantum level, the spacetime is full of flucuations, its effects can measured in the form of the Cassini effect. Wheras real emptiness wouldn't have this property hence your attempt to call it nothing is invalid.

Also, if the known universe is what we can observe, and we see the observed universe to be moving apart in all directions, the only word we can use to describe this phenomenon is that the Universe is expanding. Even if it is expanding into nothing, the description is valid.

[Impenitent]

Originally posted by Pooeypants,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pooeypants,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Impenitent, *no space is nothing... *there is no edge... there is nothing... nothing here, nothing there, nothing, nothing nothing... between objects there is nothing... that nothing you can measure... but if you travel from an object into nothing with no object to stop your travels, how do you know when you have gotten to the end of nothing?... you cannot know... there is nothing, and no end to nothing... *there is no edge of nothing to expand

This is where you are mistaken, at the quantum level, the spacetime is full of flucuations, its effects can measured in the form of the Cassini effect. Wheras real emptiness wouldn't have this property hence your attempt to call it nothing is invalid.

*so are you saying there is no space? completely filled with fluctuations? real vacuum, real emptiness, real space, real nothing is valid. your ether with a different name is invalid

Also, if the known universe is what we can observe, and we see the observed universe to be moving apart in all directions, the only word we can use to describe this phenomenon is that the Universe is expanding. Even if it is expanding into nothing, the description is valid.

*no, it is not valid... the distance between the left edge of the universe and the right edge of the universe has not increased... there are no edges... it cannot be measured... to say it is increasing is an error

[/b][/quote]

[Pooeypants]

I think you're playing with terminology now, I've already explained what the expansion means even if vacuum is absolute nothing.
If you have nothing further to add to this scientific thread other than philosophical rhetoric, don't post.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Actually, the boundry is relevant, it would affect the rate of diffusion. If fact it would change it from an expansion to a diffusion.

This is where you are mistaken, at the quantum level, the spacetime is full of flucuations, its effects can measured in the form of the Cassini effect.

Casimir Effect.

*cough*

Tachyons could be bouncing.

There is no empirical evidence for tachyons. Even if they do exist, they would be pretty well useless to us because we cannot interact with particles travelling faster than c.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by KSoDBartman, Casimir Effect. *cough*

Oopsie, I knew I got my Cas mixed up.

[ruiner]

An anti-gravitational force is impossible. You can induce gravitational forces, but the universe simply doesn't support anti-gravity as much as we might want it to. The best way to get around the gravity problem is to design extremely efficient force generators better than todays engines and rockets. Nature has already come up with some very good designs - cars guzzle gas, but the cheetah eats a bit of meat, which is faster?

First thing ruiner, never say anything is impossible. New York Times published "A million engineers and a million mathmaticians in a million years will never get man to fly." Two weeks later there go the Wright Brothers.

Things occur all the time that passes right through the boundaries of rationality but they do happen. You need to research the Indian man (Hira Ratan Manek ) who fasted for 180 days under observation from NASA. Just remember Ruiner to keep an open mind towards everything and then make your judgements when all the facts are in front of you. If Anti-Gravity was impossible the theory would have been abolished and there would be very little discussion of it left. But it still holds a high place in the scientific community.

[Nexiss]

I would like to point out that the Universe can be finite without having a boundary/edge.
If you find that difficult to imagine, just think about the surface of a sphere as being the Universe.