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Mr.Vicchio · Jul 9, 2005, 01:59 am

It can be done, it's an OLD game of "make fun of Math and Science" but it's also, infalliably true on paper. It also is quite easily disproven, even though it's mathmatically proven to be true.

Make sense? I can prove you never EVER touch ANYTHING, EVER... Mathmatically. Yet it's obvious you do. Crazy huh?

Anyone know this one?

Samildanach · Jul 9, 2005, 08:27 am

No you cant. Unless you have a COMPLETE grasp of physics.

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 9, 2005, 11:21 am

Are you talking about "Pascal's dust" (or who the hell ever did that)?

**Jack** · Jul 9, 2005, 11:25 am

Is this the, "go half the distance, then half the remaining distance, then half that remaining distance..." concept, in which, mathmatically, you can never reach your detination, because there will always be a remaining distance to cover?

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 9, 2005, 01:11 pm

Bingo for Isherwood. Pulled that at work last night and pissed off the Electronics Tech guy.

Mwahahahaha.

**Jack** · Jul 9, 2005, 01:14 pm

Things like that make my brain hurt. :confused:

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 9, 2005, 02:18 pm

Well technically, it's true. Nothing ever touches anything.

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 9, 2005, 07:35 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

Is this the, "go half the distance, then half the remaining distance, then half that remaining distance..." concept, in which, mathmatically, you can never reach your detination, because there will always be a remaining distance to cover?

Yes, this is what I was referring to.

RickSp · Jul 9, 2005, 08:39 pm

Your are referring to a variation on Zeno’s Paradox of the Tortoise and Achilles , circa 350 BCE. Zeno's Paradox essentially argued that motion was not actually possible.

The paradox is fairly easily disprovable:

Quote:

Now the resolution to Zeno's Paradox is easy. Obviously, it will take me some fixed time to cross half the distance to the other side of the room, say 2 seconds. How long will it take to cross half the remaining distance? Half as long – only 1 second. Covering half of the remaining distance (an eighth of the total) will take only half a second. And so one. And once I have covered all the infinitely many sub-distances and added up all the time it took to traverse them? Only 4 seconds, and here I am, on the other side of the room after all.

I had a math teacher who used Zeno's Paradox to define the terms "for all intents and purposes." He proposed lining up all the boys on one side the room and all the girls on the other. If each line moved half way to the other and then half way again and so forth, they would at least per Zeno, never meet. They would however very quickly get close enough "for all intents and purposes."

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 9, 2005, 08:50 pm

It's easily disproved by just touching your keyboard....

But if you run it out mathmatically... there will always be 1/2 the distance to cover, thus you could never REACH the zero point.

**Jack** · Jul 9, 2005, 09:02 pm

Quote:

They would however very quickly get close enough "for all intents and purposes."

This wasn't a sex ed. class then?

belverron · Jul 9, 2005, 09:06 pm

Why on Earth would you only go half the remaining distance? Go the whole way and prove you can touch it.

**Jack** · Jul 9, 2005, 09:29 pm

"Don't touch it!!! It's evil!!!" (My favorite line from Time Bandits)

RickSp · Jul 9, 2005, 09:41 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

It's easily disproved by just touching your keyboard....

But if you run it out mathmatically... there will always be 1/2 the distance to cover, thus you could never REACH the zero point.

Nope. Any finite distance can be subdivided into an infinite number of spaces. The hidden assumption in the paradox is that each "half distance" takes a comparable time to transit. In fact as the distance becomes infinititely small, so does the time required to cross it. Even if a mile can be subdivided into an infinite number of segments, it still takes the same time to walk. Just the nature of an infinite series.

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 9, 2005, 10:00 pm

Quote:

Quote by: belverron

Why on Earth would you only go half the remaining distance? Go the whole way and prove you can touch it.

Draw a line. Now move your finger from one end to the other.

Now imagine drawing that line 1/2 of the way there. You now 1/2 of the way.

Contnue this process untill you run out of 1/2 way points. Call us if you ever reach that.

On paper.

RickSp · Jul 9, 2005, 10:41 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

Draw a line. Now move your finger from one end to the other.

Now imagine drawing that line 1/2 of the way there. You now 1/2 of the way.

Contnue this process untill you run out of 1/2 way points. Call us if you ever reach that.

On paper.

That expression reduces, on paper, to D = Dn - Dn/(2 ^n) where the limit on n is infinity.

belverron · Jul 9, 2005, 10:44 pm

But why are we using halfway points? And why does this prove anything? Mathematics uses equations to solve real dilemmas. It doesn't impose them meaninglessly.

**Jack** · Jul 9, 2005, 10:48 pm

I told you. Evil math lovers like Mr. V bring these things up to make my brain hurt. Oh, jeez, I think my ears are bleeding now, too.

belverron · Jul 9, 2005, 10:56 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

I told you. Evil math lovers like Mr. V bring these things up to make my brain hurt. Oh, jeez, I think my ears are bleeding now, too.

I've taken three semesters of calculus and the logic behind this still eludes me.

PatrickHenry · Jul 9, 2005, 10:56 pm

Let me see if I can say this like castille would: "If I smash your face with my fist, are you still prepared to prove I never touched you?"

Jul 9, 2005, 01:59 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	Mathmatically I can prove nothing ever touches anything.... It can be done, it's an OLD game of "make fun of Math and Science" but it's also, infalliably true on paper. It also is quite easily disproven, even though it's mathmatically proven to be true. Make sense? I can prove you never EVER touch ANYTHING, EVER... Mathmatically. Yet it's obvious you do. Crazy huh? Anyone know this one? Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 9, 2005, 08:27 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	No you cant. Unless you have a COMPLETE grasp of physics. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Jul 9, 2005, 11:25 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,999	Is this the, "go half the distance, then half the remaining distance, then half that remaining distance..." concept, in which, mathmatically, you can never reach your detination, because there will always be a remaining distance to cover? The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 9, 2005, 01:11 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	Bingo for Isherwood. Pulled that at work last night and pissed off the Electronics Tech guy. Mwahahahaha. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 9, 2005, 01:14 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,999	Things like that make my brain hurt. :confused: The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 9, 2005, 11:21 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Are you talking about "Pascal's dust" (or who the hell ever did that)?

Jul 9, 2005, 02:18 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	Well technically, it's true. Nothing ever touches anything. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 9, 2005, 08:50 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	It's easily disproved by just touching your keyboard.... But if you run it out mathmatically... there will always be 1/2 the distance to cover, thus you could never REACH the zero point. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 9, 2005, 09:06 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
belverron Beloved Truth-Dragon Location: Texas Posts: 1,299	Why on Earth would you only go half the remaining distance? Go the whole way and prove you can touch it. If only I could saith, so should I.

Jul 9, 2005, 09:29 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,999	"Don't touch it!!! It's evil!!!" (My favorite line from Time Bandits) The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 9, 2005, 10:44 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
belverron Beloved Truth-Dragon Location: Texas Posts: 1,299	But why are we using halfway points? And why does this prove anything? Mathematics uses equations to solve real dilemmas. It doesn't impose them meaninglessly. If only I could saith, so should I.

Jul 9, 2005, 10:48 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,999	I told you. Evil math lovers like Mr. V bring these things up to make my brain hurt. Oh, jeez, I think my ears are bleeding now, too. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 9, 2005, 10:56 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	Let me see if I can say this like castille would: "If I smash your face with my fist, are you still prepared to prove I never touched you?" "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams