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RickSp · Jul 9, 2005, 10:56 pm

Quote:

Quote by: belverron

But why are we using halfway points? And why does this prove anything? Mathematics uses equations to solve real dilemmas. It doesn't impose them meaninglessly.

The halfway points are fictions. If you walk between point A and point B at a constant speed, you can sub-divide the distance into an infinite series of halfway points. It doesn't change the distance nor the speed required to cover it. Zeno didn't understand the nature of an infinite series.

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 9, 2005, 10:58 pm

Lol...

It's an ancient logic puzzle, it's pretty simple really.

To get from point A to point B, you must cross point C. C is the 1/2 mark. From C to B you have to reach D, the halfway mark between the two, this continues into infinity because the 1/2 way points are never ending. Thus on paper... you could never touch anthing.

On paper.

RickSp · Jul 9, 2005, 11:13 pm

I guess Mr. V doesn't understand infinite series any more than Zeno. Why am I not surprised?

**Jack** · Jul 9, 2005, 11:26 pm

I'm sure by now I don't.

Zeno...the guy with the cape and sword, right?

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 9, 2005, 11:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: RickSp

I guess Mr. V doesn't understand infinite series any more than Zeno. Why am I not surprised?

I understand it just fine, but that's not the point of the logic puzzle, and you know it.

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 9, 2005, 11:52 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

there will always be 1/2 the distance to cover, thus you could never REACH the zero point.

That only applies to people who limit themselves to traveling half the distance they need to go.

Prometheus · Jul 10, 2005, 10:15 am

Lets throw the whole Zeno's paradox out the wondow. This paradox makes the irronious assumption that motion progresses through time in discrete intervals. Motion (as far as we know) is continious, and sp breaking it into discrete intervals has no logical basis.

Besides, the whole halfway thing is totally arbitrary anyway. When you say things can't touch eachother, you assume that some mind is observing them, and saying they need to touch. When you do the calculation of halves, you are telling the object what it is supposed to touch. It is entirely possible, that while on it's jumpy, "halfway" course to some arbitrarily selected target, that it passes through another objects. There is nothing in this silly paradox to keep that from happening.

RickSp · Jul 10, 2005, 10:32 am

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

I'm sure by now I don't.

Zeno...the guy with the cape and sword, right?

No, no, no. That dude was Zoro, Zeno's second cousin on his mother's side, twenty centuries removed.

Zeno and Hericlitus were were in the middle of the the big philosophical argument of their day - whether existence was predominately static (Zeno) or in constant flux (Hericlitus). Wasn't that exciting, as arguments goes, but at least it was better than "more taste, less filling".

RickSp · Jul 10, 2005, 10:35 am

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

I understand it just fine, but that's not the point of the logic puzzle, and you know it.

It is a fun mind game but the logic is faulty. If you look at it as a calculus problem the so called "paradox" disappears.

MerlinsByte · Jul 10, 2005, 10:40 am

Merlin writes...nothing that has (relativistic) mass touches anything in the plank scale or smaller either, any opposition?

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 10, 2005, 11:53 am

Quote:

Quote by: MerlinsByte

Merlin writes...nothing that has (relativistic) mass touches anything in the plank scale or smaller either, any opposition?

Protons and neutrons are touching in the nucleous.

MerlinsByte · Jul 10, 2005, 09:30 pm

Merlin writes...T man, It was a trick question, sorta, and I suppose I could be right or wrong but think about this, if you consider every particle, being it a proton, neutron, or electron, as being restricted in space relative to its neighbor particle by the shape of a particular polyhedra (spherical standing wave), there would be no need for any principle to show how and why these particles can never collide with each other. We know that collisions between electrons or nucleons in a particle are very infrequent. So these particles never touch but ane bound with strong forces.

mb

Samildanach · Jul 11, 2005, 05:32 pm

Xenos paradox has been solved by a new zealander.The solution was 'there is no such thing as a moment in time.'

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-gwi072703.php

Prometheus · Jul 11, 2005, 05:35 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Samildanach

Xenos paradox has been solved by a new zealander.The solution was 'there is no such thing as a moment in time.'

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-gwi072703.php

Exactly. Just like I said in post #27. Time is not broken into discrete intervals. It is continious.

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 11, 2005, 05:58 pm

Quote:

Time is not broken into discrete intervals. It is continious.

But we've been analyzing intervals and instantaneous moments in time for thousands of years.

Prometheus · Jul 11, 2005, 06:03 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

But we've been analyzing intervals and instantaneous moments in time for thousands of years.

I like your reasoning. White people have been enslaving niggers for centuries. Why stop?

MerlinsByte · Jul 13, 2005, 09:42 am

Quote:

I like your reasoning. White people have been enslaving niggers for centuries. Why stop?

merlin writes...As a stars and bars flyin' southern boy, born and bred, I would hope that no one would resopnds to the above post.It is racist. Am I out of line on this ? BTW this could be considered a reverse racist post as well.

long live the south

mb

MerlinsByte · Jul 13, 2005, 09:46 am

Quote:

Time is not broken into discrete intervals. It is continious.

mb....I thought that the above was a given. Time is linear and was created when the first mass or anything in the temporal universe was created. Time has no need to exist without mass or matter.

was it wheeler who said time exists to keep everything happening at once?

MerlinsByte · Jul 13, 2005, 09:55 am

[quote]No, no, no. That dude was Zoro, Zeno's second cousin on his mother's side, twenty centuries removed./[quote]

yeah but how do you KNOW that this Zeno in theory didnt have a saber and cape..?

mb

tman_ndsu08 · Jul 13, 2005, 01:53 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Prometheus

I like your reasoning. White people have been enslaving niggers for centuries. Why stop?

If it were as obvious as that, someone would've figured it out a hundred years ago...like we figured out slavery a hundred years ago.

This is just a some kid with a philosophy paper that is getting some buzz on the internet media. Who cares?

Jul 9, 2005, 10:58 pm	#22 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Lol... It's an ancient logic puzzle, it's pretty simple really. To get from point A to point B, you must cross point C. C is the 1/2 mark. From C to B you have to reach D, the halfway mark between the two, this continues into infinity because the 1/2 way points are never ending. Thus on paper... you could never touch anthing. On paper. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 9, 2005, 11:13 pm	#23 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,589	I guess Mr. V doesn't understand infinite series any more than Zeno. Why am I not surprised? Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Jul 9, 2005, 11:26 pm	#24 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,786	I'm sure by now I don't. Zeno...the guy with the cape and sword, right? The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 10, 2005, 10:15 am	#27 (permalink) (top)
Prometheus Glad to be back! Location: Vernal, UT Posts: 1,725	Lets throw the whole Zeno's paradox out the wondow. This paradox makes the irronious assumption that motion progresses through time in discrete intervals. Motion (as far as we know) is continious, and sp breaking it into discrete intervals has no logical basis. Besides, the whole halfway thing is totally arbitrary anyway. When you say things can't touch eachother, you assume that some mind is observing them, and saying they need to touch. When you do the calculation of halves, you are telling the object what it is supposed to touch. It is entirely possible, that while on it's jumpy, "halfway" course to some arbitrarily selected target, that it passes through another objects. There is nothing in this silly paradox to keep that from happening. Fixed ideas are like a cramp in the foot - the best remedy against it is to tread on it. -Søren Kierkegaard

Jul 11, 2005, 05:32 pm	#33 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	Xenos paradox has been solved by a new zealander.The solution was 'there is no such thing as a moment in time.' http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-gwi072703.php I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Jul 10, 2005, 10:40 am	#30 (permalink) (top)
MerlinsByte BANNED Posts: 1,267	Merlin writes...nothing that has (relativistic) mass touches anything in the plank scale or smaller either, any opposition?

Jul 10, 2005, 09:30 pm	#32 (permalink) (top)
MerlinsByte BANNED Posts: 1,267	Merlin writes...T man, It was a trick question, sorta, and I suppose I could be right or wrong but think about this, if you consider every particle, being it a proton, neutron, or electron, as being restricted in space relative to its neighbor particle by the shape of a particular polyhedra (spherical standing wave), there would be no need for any principle to show how and why these particles can never collide with each other. We know that collisions between electrons or nucleons in a particle are very infrequent. So these particles never touch but ane bound with strong forces. mb

Jul 13, 2005, 09:55 am	#39 (permalink) (top)
MerlinsByte BANNED Posts: 1,267	[quote]No, no, no. That dude was Zoro, Zeno's second cousin on his mother's side, twenty centuries removed./[quote] yeah but how do you KNOW that this Zeno in theory didnt have a saber and cape..? mb