Creationism vs. Evolution

[kubedawg]

I agree that theology should not be taught in science class, but neither should the theory of evolution, which in no way proves, nor will it ever prove how we came about. Because it comes down to belief/faith, it becomes a part of theology, therefore should not be taught in science class either. Basically, with the theory of evolution, it is the Earth that is the being in which we evolved over these thousands of years and so on. Thus the reason in which I believe the theory of evolution(the part of it that's possible, even probable, but not proven) should not be taught in schools.

[Pooeypants]

The theory of common descent is well characterised and documented, which part of it are in disagreement with?

[kubedawg]

I'm not in disagreement with common descent. Even if it's not documented, it's obvious that to create another human, 2 humans(mae/female) must procreate, therefore, I have a mom/dad, grandparents, great grandparents ETC. Now that we've got that aside, I'm looking at how humans came about in the beginning. It obviously had to start at some point in time.

[Captain Chaos]

Evolution is an absolutely essential part of biological science. It must be taught in science classes. Too many other scientific practices depend on it to just ignore it.

[Fonceai]

Evolution in reference to genetic mutation is essential.

They can even teach that humans have evolved since recorded history.

But saying that Humans are a product of evolution is not for high school. That's for college, where there is a free range for education topics.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Fonceai Evolution in reference to genetic mutation is essential. They can even teach that humans have evolved since recorded history. But saying that Humans are a product of evolution is not for high school. That's for college, where there is a free range for education topics.

It must be taught at High School because it's a part of life that everyone must accept, as much that gravity exists or that we are composed of tiny cells and our genetic material is DNA.

[gallo]

Quote by: kubedawg I agree that theology should not be taught in science class, but neither should the theory of evolution,

So you are saying is that the most fundamental theory to the biological sciences should not be taught in biology class? Do you also maintain that atomic theory should not be taught in chemistry class? Or the theory of gravitation in physics class?

Quote by: kubedawg which in no way proves, nor will it ever prove how we came about.

Stick to the point. Science doesn't even attempt to prove anything. Maybe you should learn what science is and how it works before you enter into debate. However, the theory of evolution pretty much explains very broadly the origins of every living thing. Scientific theories are tested explanations for observations of nature.

Quote by: kubedawg Because it comes down to belief/faith, it becomes a part of theology, therefore should not be taught in science class either.

But science is not a matter of faith. It is a matter of empirical evidence, hypothesis, prediction and testing. It comes down to the best explanation we can devise for what we observe. The theories of evolution explain life and how it has developed and changed on earth over time.

Quote by: kubedawg Basically, with the theory of evolution, it is the Earth that is the being in which we evolved over these thousands of years and so on.

Did that make sense to you?

Quote by: kubedawg Thus the reason in which I believe the theory of evolution(the part of it that's possible, even probable, but not proven) should not be taught in schools.

Again, science doesn't prove anything. Second, most scientific theories should be taught in science classes. I say most because there just isn't time to teach everything. Thus, in high school the classes only touch on the major points. Thus, evolution usually gets only passing recognition, which is probably why there is so much misunderstanding about it. Heck! Most high school graduates don't even know what science is or how it works.

[BWRoberts221]

Quote by: Captain Chaos Evolution is an absolutely essential part of biological science. It must be taught in science classes. Too many other scientific practices depend on it to just ignore it.

Absolutely! To ignore something heavily supported by solid evidence just because it goes against superstition is absurd. And the argument that neither one should be taught in school is giving too much credit to Intelligent Design. Evolution is supported by scientific method. It's a theory, yes, but an important one. You can't turn Darwinism into an underground belief just because some conservatives don't like the sound of being called highly evolved monkeys. Children have a right to be taught the truth; this includes theories developed by scientific method. We also need to respect the right of our children to draw their own conclusions based on all the information available. When it comes to education, both sides of the fence seem to think that children are incapable of thinking things out for themselves. Better to just blindly accept what you're told. Certainly this is what Conservatives believe. It's obvious that what upsets some parents the most is having their school teach something different than what they want their kids to believe. This is selfish and, in my opinion, abusive. It's totally unacceptable and bewildering in this day and age to see kids fed misinformation in hopes that it will somehow shape their morality in a positive way. But then, those kinds of people probably think psychology is just a bunch of communist, hippie nonsense. Eventually, Fundamentalists will realize that lies do nothing to strengthen faith.

[gallo]

Quote by: kubedawg I'm not in disagreement with common descent. Even if it's not documented, it's obvious that to create another human, 2 humans(mae/female) must procreate, therefore, I have a mom/dad, grandparents, great grandparents ETC.

How do you know that you are not in disagreement with the concept of common descent? Clearly you don't know what it is. Perhaps you might consult Wikipedia for a beginners explanation.

Quote by: kubedawg Now that we've got that aside, I'm looking at how humans came about in the beginning. It obviously had to start at some point in time.

Which humans? The Neandertals? Cro-Magnon? What exactly do you mean by "human?" Do you think it was a "point" or that it was a gradual process that happened over a longer time span?

If you are really interested in learning some answers, I recommend that you read Chapter 11, How Did Mankind Evolve of Mayr, Ernst. 2001. What Evolution Is. Basic Books, New York. 318 pages. I strongly recommend that you read the 10 chapters leading up to chapter 11 first. You might actually learn something about evolution.

Other sources of learning are:

Dawkins, Richard. 1995. River Out of Eden. Basic Books, New York. 173 pages. This is a very basic summary of evolutionary theory.

Maynard Smith, John. 1997. The Theory of Evolution. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge. 354 pages. A good explanation of the basics.

Futuyma, Douglas J. 1998. Evolutionary Biology. Sinauer Associates Inc., Sunderland, MA. 763 pages + glossary, bibliography, and index. A college text intended for biology majors. Presumes good foundation in biology.

If you are specifically interested in human evolution, these books will help.

Tattersall, Ian. 1995. The Fossil Trail: How We Know What We Think We Know About Human Evolution. Oxford University Press, Oxford. 276 pages.

Walker, Alan & Shipman, Pat. 1996. The Wisdom of the Bones: In Search of Human Origins. Vintage Books, New York. 338 pages.

Johanson, Donald & Edgar, Blake. 1996. From Lucy to Language. Simon & Schuster, New York. 272 pages. Spectacular photographs of most of the significant fossils in human evolution. Most of the discussion of the theory is still relevant despite the age of the book.

Tattersall, Ian & Schwartz, Jeffery. 2000. Extinct Humans. Westview Press, Boulder, CO. 256 pages. Also full of stunning photographs as well as excellent discussion.

I hope that's helpful for you. Happy reading.

[gallo]

Quote by: Pooeypants It must be taught at High School because it's a part of life that everyone must accept, as much that gravity exists or that we are composed of tiny cells and our genetic material is DNA.

Right. It seems that those who don't understand science or evolutionary theory always find an excuse to eliminate evolutionary theory. OOOH. It's just too hard, or it's too controversial.

As Theodosius Dobzhansky said, "Nothing in Biology Makes Sense
Except in the Light of Evolution." In fact, how can one seriously pretend to teach taxonomy without an evolutionary basis. Without the concept of common descent, taxonomy is a senseless trash heap.

[Fonceai]

Human evolution isn't required in high school.

I did make it clear I meant human evolution, didn't I?

If there is going to be a clear problem over subject matter, teach the subject matter, minus humans, while in public schools. A private school can do what it wants.

[Mozart1220]

Quote by: Captain Chaos Whether or not there is a God, and whether or not that god created our reality - it still does not belong in a science class.

Agreed. I will accept creation in science class when churches start seriously teaching evolution as truth.

[Mozart1220]

Quote by: Fonceai Human evolution isn't required in high school. I did make it clear I meant human evolution, didn't I? If there is going to be a clear problem over subject matter, teach the subject matter, minus humans, while in public schools. A private school can do what it wants.

Teaching evolution without humans would be like teaching religion without Christianity.

[underbear1]

I wonder what is it that Darwin's theory so frightens some people of faith? I know many Catholics and protestants who have no problem holding both things to be reconcilable their belief in a God, and that evolution happened, and continues to happen.

[Fonceai]

Not necessarily.

You can show how humans have evolved through the course of recorded history.

You can do quite a bit without saying that mankind evolved from apes.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Fonceai Not necessarily. You can show how humans have evolved through the course of recorded history. You can do quite a bit without saying that mankind evolved from apes.

We didn't evolved from modern apes, we evolved along side them. And why can't we teach that? It's just evolutionary science, people need to know about their history.

[gallo]

Quote by: underbear1 I wonder what is it that Darwin's theory so frightens some people of faith?

Weak faith.

[Fonceai]

@Pooey

As a sacrificial nod to those who want it all. Instead, keep evolution to the animals unless you're taking an AP level Biology course or a Theology course.

It's a solution that works quite well for many of the school districts here in Upstate New York. The kids know why it's done this way, no one's feathers get ruffled. It has made all sides happy.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Fonceai @Pooey As a sacrificial nod to those who want it all. Instead, keep evolution to the animals unless you're taking an AP level Biology course or a Theology course. It's a solution that works quite well for many of the school districts here in Upstate New York. The kids know why it's done this way, no one's feathers get ruffled. It has made all sides happy.

No, there shouldn't be any compromises. Science is science, I couldn't care less what religious fanatics think, what is established should be taught as such unless show otherwise. All modern science is falsifiable, if people would like to stand up to the challenge with Evolution, let them.

[Zinkovich]

Not to mention that the field I am going into(Anthropology) absolutely REQUIRES the studying of the evolution of man for some of it's more prolific fields when it comes to their usage in science. I'll be damned if I'm going to overlook the possibility of working in such a field just because of the ramifications towards someone else's cultural meme.