The Scientific Evidence for the Spiritual

[Meleagar]

It's interesting to me that many people who claim to be basing their materialist views on science, regularly dismiss any science that contradicts their views, often prejudicially, smearing the sources, or the reputations of those conducting the exeriments, or the manner in which they present their findings, instead of addressing the evidence and the research itself, or addressing their own preconceptions about the nature of such research and its conclusions.

In the spirit of proper debate, I'm going to be presenting in this thread scientific evidence for the spiritual (afterlife, non-physical mind, spiritual realms, etc.) to contradict the many claims by many here that there is "no evidence" for such things (which, most often, they only mean "scientific evidence".

I'm going to start off with some material I posted in another thread and continue from there. Most of it is research, but some of it are quotes of highly respected scientists in regards to the research, after they looked over the evidence.

William Crooke's Research into mediumship., published in the Quarterly Journal of Science. Crookes was widely regarded as the greatest scientist of his time; his validation of spiritual mediumship cause and uproar in the scientific community.

A couple of his contemporaries said of his and other such research:

SIR WILLIAM BARRETT, (1844-1925) – Professor of physics at the Royal College of Science in Dublin for 37 years, “I’m absolutely convinced of the fact that those who once lived on earth can and do communicate with us. It is hardly possible to convey to the inexperienced an adequate idea of the strength and cumulative force of the evidence (for the afterlife).”

Dr. Alfred Russel Wallace (1823-1913) – Co-originator with Charles Darwin of the natural selection theory of evolution: " My position is that the phenomena of communicating with those who crossed over - in their entirety do not require further confirmation. They are proved quite as well as facts are proved in other sciences."

NDE research, published in the Lancet. An excerpt:

With lack of evidence for any other theories for NDE, the thus far assumed, but never proven, concept that consciousness and memories are localised in the brain should be discussed. How could a clear consciousness outside one’s body be experienced at the moment that the brain no longer functions during a period of clinical death with flat EEG?

Also, in cardiac arrest the EEG usually becomes flat in most cases within about 10 s from onset of syncope.29,30 Furthermore, blind people have described veridical perception during out-of-body experiences at the time of this xperience.31 NDE pushes at the limits of medical ideas about the range of human consciousness and the mind-brain relation.

Another theory holds that NDE might be a changing state of consciousness (transcendence), in which identity, cognition, and emotion function independently from the unconscious body, but retain the possibility of non-sensory perception. Research should be concentrated on the effort to explain scientifically the occurrence and content of NDE. Research should be focused on certain specific elements of NDE, such as out-of-body experiences and other verifiable aspects. Finally, the theory and background of transcendence should be included as a part of an explanatory framework for these experiences.

Veritas Project, mediumship research conducted by the Universtity of Arizona, which produced publications such as:

Beischel J, Schwartz GE. Anomalous information reception by research mediums demonstrated using a novel triple-blind protocol. EXPLORE: The Journal of Science & Healing. 2007;3(1):23-27.

and

Schwartz GER, Russek LGS, Nelson LA, Barentsen C. Accuracy and replicability of anomalous after-death communication across highly skilled mediums. Journal of the Society for Psychical Research. 2001;65(1):1-25.

Schwartz GE (with Simon WL). The Afterlife Experiments: Breakthrough Scientific Evidence of Life After Death. New York: Pocket Books (division of Simon and Schuster); 2002.

Abstracts of the 40th Parapsychology Foundation International Conference
“The Study of Mediumship: Interdisciplinary Perspectives”

The Scole Experiment

The Windbridge Institute, which has ongoing mediumship research, with many publications including "ANOMALOUS INFORMATION RECEPTION BY RESEARCH MEDIUMS DEMONSTRATED USING A NOVEL TRIPLE-BLIND PROTOCOL."

[Meleagar]

Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research
Scientific Study of Consciousness-Related Physical Phenomena

Excerpt for "Implications and Applications"


"PEAR's contribution to this expansion of the scientific worldview has been its accumulation of huge bodies of consciousness-correlated empirical evidence that the subjective/objective dichotomy of Cartesian philosophy is no longer entirely viable.

More comprehensive accommodation of these anomalies within a functional scientific framework will require the explicit inclusion of consciousness as an active agent in the establishment of physical reality, a generalization of the scientific paradigm demanding more courageous theoretical structures than are employed at present, guided by more extensive empirical data than are now available, acquired via more cooperative interdisciplinary collaborations than are currently practiced. It is our hope that by its proposition of a few possible conceptual models PEAR has established productive precedents for such representation of this formidable, but crucial, topical domain.

Our ability to acquire, or to generate tangible, measureable information independent of distance or time challenges the foundation of any reductionistic brain-based model of consciousness that may be invoked. The lack of notable correlations in the data with standard learning curves or other recognizable cognitive patterns, combined with the repeatable and distinct gender-related differences, suggest that these abilities may stem from a more fundamental source than heretofore suspected. Certainly, there is little doubt that integration of these changes in our understanding of ourselves can lead to a substantially superior human ethic, wherein the long-estranged siblings of science and spirit, of analysis and aesthetics, of intellect and intuition, and of many other subjective and objective aspects of human experience can be productively reunited. "

There are many publications that PEAR produced during their research, including:

Physical Aspects of Psychic Phenomena (1988). Physics Bulletin, 39, pp. 235-236.

Evidence for Consciousness-Related Anomalies in Random Physical Systems (1989). Foundations of Physics, 19, No. 12, pp.1499-1514.*

Consciousness and Anomalous Physical Phenomena (1995). PEAR Technical Note 95004, May 1995 (32 pages).

The abstract: Several million experimental trials investigating the ability of human operators to affect the output of various random physical devices have demonstrated small but statistically significant shifts of the distribution means that correlate with operator intention, exhibit repeatable idiosyncratic individual variations, and display consistent patterns of gender dependence, series position development, and internal distribution structure. These effects also appear to be statistically independent of distance and time. In a complementary program of remote perception studies, experimental protocols and analytical scoring methods have been developed to demonstrate and quantify information acquired by individuals about distant geographical locations without the use of normal sensory channels. A wave-mechanical approach to modeling consciousness/environment interactions, based on a metaphorical application of quantum concepts and formalisms, has proven useful in predicting and interpreting the empirical findings and in guiding the development of more incisive experiments.

[Cruella]

Where is the debate premise, please?

[Meleagar]

Where is the debate premise, please?

That there is rigorously-produced, scientific evidence that indicates the existence of what is commonly referred to as spiritual phenomena, such as a "soul".

[Cruella]

Oh, okay then. And you don't want people to debate your sources, have I read that right?

[SoylentGreen]

Great so we have research showing that there is more to the mind than we know. Big deal, we knew that. And then along comes a believer in primitive superstitions such as yourself who assumes this must mean there is a soul or god or pretend invisible friend if you prefer or whatever other mystical BS.

When science drags your pretend invisible friend out into the open let me know, until then please keep your shamun mystical sticks waving explanations out of science.

[grandpa]

Great so we have research showing that there is more
to the mind than we know.
Big deal, we knew that.

Yes, we did. I refer to a simple rule of thumb: If you believe in it, it doesn't necessarily make it so.
The best we can do is say these magazines lend credibility to our claims against religion, as nobody is using "spiritual" means to delve into these issues. The only way we can know, or come close to knowing anything about the true nature of "out of body experiences," is to study the pheneomena empirically.

Grandpa h.

[Charlatan]

I find it easier to point out that energy never dissapates so it would remain after the body dies. If the body dies the nervous system shuts down, but there is still electrical energy inside the body. This electrical energy would survive the death and lead to electric activity outside of the body. This would lead to a soul, being made up of the impulses of the nervous system left over from life. These have no boudaries now and are forced outside of the body, expanding out into the air. I call this everpresence, as they no longer have boundaries to keep them in, but are stil there. As they bond with other everpresnet things, like other souls, they would be able to communicate witht them using their energy rather than vocal attributes.

[Charlatan]

But becoming everpresnt will mean that they will lose thier form. What would keep them together? Being formed in a shape for a while might make their impulses gather together for the afterlife, as they would need the energy together for functioning as they did in life. That is where evp comes in, it is evidence of them communicating in a medium where they can be recorded, electrically. If they were to keep their form then they could still function, and their form is kept as it was by elecrtical magnetism - that is what keeps the body functioning as it does - if all the energy in it were to repel each other, then it wouldn't function. Therefroe we are kept together by our energy being attracted to itself, and that gives form to our souls too.

[Charlatan]

Ok, ignore that last one. Our electrical form comes out of similarity, as our energy is is is different to static in the air, so the static, being different, does not let the energy pass through it, or, it does and we become everpresent. I am not sure which, but that would take scientific study. I am sure the answer is at our fingertips.

I would suppose that the energy mingles with static and the static filters it through itself and then it becomes everpresent.

We can communicate with the souls by digital means. If we send out a digital message that is set to the right frequency, and set up a microphone that is set to the right frequency, we might get the answers we are looking for. We might just be bogged down by responses!

[Charlatan]

Ok, I have a feeling that last one was wrong too, but the digital mean sof communication I am still sure about. Let's just say our souls leave our body reataining the energy hat was once in them, by not being bonded to a brain - the nervous system - and the nervous sysem shutting down. The nervous sytem insulates the energy with it's own energy, and, no longer having it insulated, means it will travel.

[barts]

In the spirit of proper debate, I'm going to be presenting in this thread scientific evidence for the spiritual (afterlife, non-physical mind, spiritual realms, etc.) to contradict the many claims by many here that there is "no evidence" for such things (which, most often, they only mean "scientific evidence".

Do you claim that your "scientific evidence" proves the material existence of the spiritual or the perception of the spiritual?

Obviously, many people--perhaps even the majority--have perceptions of a spiritual world and even of a soul. But, perceptions are not reality. Our perceptions, gained through our six senses, of the material world, for example, are very limited and often give us a completely false impression of reality.