Health+medicine

[Sean]

Now I'm not going to be involving myself in these issues, but hey, why not start off some interesting ones?

The way we treat our disabled/ill citizens varies from region to region, so what's the best way to accomplish this need, and who's doing the best job at it (+why)?

[G. Adams]

Ahh, but this is capitalism, and socialism is dead. Why look after the old or disabled at all? They have outlived their wealth creating lifespan, and now have no purpose in society. If they can't be found more profit (not for themselves, silly) making jobs then perhaps euthenasia would be best. But perhaps too expensive?

Perhaps we could compost them?

[G. Adams]

sorry to any offense caused, that was my cynical self talking.

[John]

So my comments in another thread you didnt like because i supported the iraq war in which people were getting killed oh lets just see your reply in that thread shall we

Perhaps I jumped the gun but anyone who loves to see another country attacked and people being killed has already lost any respect in a sensible argument.

But then you say this

Why look after the old or disabled at all? They have outlived their wealth creating lifespan, and now have no purpose in society

Being a bit hypocritical arent we buddy. EH while i am at it, i shall bring up this comment too

And I seem to remember John implying a natural lower intellect in the aboriginal australians,

Take a look at your intellectual ability before you bother looking at mine. Because your comments here seem to be lacking.

[thrice]

lol this is starting to be funny. People trying to be smartasses everywhere. John, read G.Adams's second post in this thread...

[John]

Originally posted by thrice@Aug 31 2003, 09:38 PM lol this is starting to be funny. People trying to be smartasses everywhere. John, read G.Adams's second post in this thread...

his second post has nothing to do with the point i am making, he was quick to critiscize me about my comments, but then he goes on and says something similar in a different context. Not trying to start a fight, i just had to point that out to him.

[Sodfather]

One of the best ways to judge a culture is by the manner in which the people treat its weakest members, in this case elders.

That said, I don't know much about U.S. Medicare and Social Secuity benefits and what not, but I'm guessing U.S. isn't leading the pack in this area...?


Hey, we try!

[G. Adams]

Even after a second reading you miss it.

Look, I was making a point. People say capitalism is so great. Yet in capitalism, in its purest form, no resources would be spent on the elderly or disabled, as they themselves do not create any profit. I am not a supporter of capitalism. I may as well say it now for clarification. I am a communist. Not a capitalist. I don't agree with letting people suffer and die for profit.

[Sean]

Originally posted by thrice@Aug 31 2003, 09:38 PM lol this is starting to be funny. People trying to be smartasses everywhere. John, read G.Adams's second post in this thread...

It is quite funny, isn't it.... :)

[Fallen Angel]

How we treat old people is very important, not just fotr ethical reasons, but also for personal ones, one day whether we can admit it or not, we will be old and weak and helpless, we will end in sort of the same way we started.
The children of today, that is the ones around you, will generally treat you the same way when your old ,that they saw the manner in which you treated old people.
What goes around comes back, you reap what you sow.
Always help old people, one day it will be you.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Adams
Why do you think that the old would not be supported under 'pure capitalism'. I consider it irrelevant since no 'pure' form of any government can exist, since people that could live that way would not need any government, but I am curious what faulty logic caused you to come to that conclusion.

[Gwala]

The leading countries are mostly the NON-US, 1st world ones. That is Canada, Europe, Australia, etc. Where people have a stable medicare system that funds hospitals equally rather than let the poor die on the streets.

-Gwala

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Er, the US is letting old people die on the street? This must not be the same US that I live in...So what country are you talking about?

[G. Adams]

Originally posted by GreatWyrm of Babylon@Sep 3 2003, 07:24 PM Er, the US is letting old people die on the street? This must not be the same US that I live in...So what country are you talking about?

Should have been in DC this Feb when it was six feet of snow, could have been hundreds of dead tramps under there cos your snow plows just push the snow onto the sidewalk. You know theres something called grit that melts the snow? But it was funny looking out of my hotel window watching all the cars slide and hit lampposts.

I didn't see any dead people on my trip, so I'll use UN's WHO stats for comparision. The US is around the 70's. The UK is in the 20's. Cuba is in the 10'sies. And I think its one of the Scandinavian countries that come first. This list is not on the health care that is provided itself, rather the efficient spending of money on health. Which is why Cuba is so high. It has the best doctors in the world, so it produces 1'st world medical statistics (infant mort rate, life expect etc). However it only spends around $300 dollars per person, so its really efficient. Whereas the US spends about $4000 per person, and only gets Cuban statistics. Which means you have the efficiency of places like Tanzania and Libya.

Next point.

Under pure capitalism, which may I again remind you is not political but economic, the goal is accumulation of wealth. The old and disabled do not help the minority who are accumulating wealth because of others labour, and simply mean more taxes. No help for old/disabled, lower taxes, more money for the rich!!

I was not writing my thesis up there, I was having a shot at all those people who so looooove capitalism. I was, by doing so, pointing out how harsh capitalism is, and that it has to concede to some lefty reforms or else the old and disabled can go die.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Our streetpeople live better than 50% of the population of the world, I never claimed it was efficent. If we actually had functioning capitalism here you would have reason to compare, but our system works in spite of the socialism that has crept into it not because of it...

[G. Adams]

Thats not because America's street people are lucky, its because 50% of the world live in an absolute shit hole. More like 40 % anyway.

[Pooeypants]

Wow, looks like a few ppl in here are extreme capitalists...


Anyho, I'm glad that Europe has mainly socialistic gov't structures. But I guess profit is more important on the other side of the great pond...

[G. Adams]

Social democrat structures, not socialist. Lets keep things clear here so we don't let people get confused. But yeah its great to know that should anything bad happen you get help here, whether your rich or not, health insurance or not etc

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by G. Adams@Sep 4 2003, 10:33 PM Social democrat structures, not socialist. Lets keep things clear here so we don't let people get confused. But yeah its great to know that should anything bad happen you get help here, whether your rich or not, health insurance or not etc

Thats the one, social democrats. Not at all sure about political terminology, cheers anyho.