Warez

[Sodfather]

In my opinion, the only people who are against warez are those too inept to gain access to it. I like to think of it in this way: some people are inside an electronics store while no one is working there and they are loading up all kinds of expesnive hardware into carts and just walking out the back door with them scotch-free. A few people are locked out of the electronics store but are looking on. These people believe that what i going on is terribly wrong and should promptly be stopped. If you were to let these people inside of the store, though, they would almost surely begin "taking" the free items like the others.

Can you see what I mean? I mean, I have a rather broad range of places where I can get free CD's, programs, and games. They are sitting right in front of me, free for the taking. They constantly tempt me. Those without access to it, on the other hand, feel none of the temptation; hence, it is quite asy for them to condemn warez.

I am not supporting warez at all; the above analogy was simply to demonstrate the average warez-condemner.

Actually, I believe that it is very immoral. These are not purchased programs; their developers are not being compensated for their hard work; the music artists, although they still manage to be rich as all hell, are getting nothing for my enjoyment of their music. Every time I download an illegal piece of software/music I am subconciously going against my morals. Everyone knows it is wrong to steal, yet most of the country who has a computer is doing so in some form or another at this very moment.

I've spoken enough; what do you guys feel about warez? Right, wrong, the companies deserve it for their high prices? When will it all end and how?

[mustardplaster]

There will always be someone saying software is to expensive or overpriced. Hmmm ye it is expensive and to tell you the truth If I had to pay for all the software on my machine it would prob hit around 10K. Who has all that money to spend on software? Well no-one really. So many are forced to see a friend, borrow, steal or Warez it. Now all are in essence stealing, but for some reason it doesn't seem that way anymore.

I just asked my friends that are sitting in the same room and between 4 people 3 guys 1 girl aged between 22 and 28 we have bought 6 cd's in the last 5 years... Go Napster, Kazaa, FTP etc.

As for Warez well it is illegal and simply not the right thing to do. However on my quest to find software over the years I have stuffed HDD and caught many virii from Warez and I like to think I now what I'm doing,,, lol. Ahhhh Warez where would the net be without you.

One added point Warez has brought many legal cracks and hacks to software that are perfectly legal.

[Sodfather]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (mustardplaster,)
Ahhhh Warez where would the net be without you.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
That is actually a good point. Do you think all of these great-looking sites you see on teh web are by people with licenses for Adobe Photoshop and 3D Studio Max? Hell no! Talented people without money have obtained the tools they need to work via warez.

The web would look like absolute shit without warez...My guess is that at least half if not more of Adobe PS users do not have a license.

[mustardplaster]

Ahhh yes that is true lots of talented work is floating around the net no doubt made by ladies and gents with passion and no money! Again they are the best friend of Warez.

Good point, we all enjoy thier work. Does that mean we applaud theft, lol.

[Aliyaho]

Some can argue that high software prices are the direct result of kids stealing it over the internet, or however they may get their hands on it. A huge cast of people work on software programs, and they all gots to get paid.

But having illegal software out there on the Internet can also be a bit of an investment on the company's behalf. Let's use Adobe as an example. How many kids today are growing up on Adobe products? Some really talented youth are using things like Photoshop and Illustrator. What happens when they get into the industry, or go to school? What programs are they going to buy? Obviously the one they are most familiar with.

I can safely say that if I had the money, I would pay for the software that I have here on my computer...but sadly, I do not.

[darwinist]

I think it is a bit of the chicken and the egg system.

There are high prices in the software/music industry. Because people are stealing it. People are stealing it because they high prices.

I think the music/software industy are trying to hold us hostage for they bad judgement.

All things cost money. To make a Cd, £1. So where is all the money going? promotion and new techmology.

How many bands/games are truely crap. Quite a lot, that is what we are really paying for. That and Robbie Williams £80,000,000 resigning fee.

But at least in computer software. You have a good moral choice. Linux. It is for free. You do not have to steal it. I would say the Gimp is as good as any software that you can buy.

[Sodfather]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (darwinist,)
I think it is a bit of the chicken and the egg system.

There are high prices in the software/music industry. Because people are stealing it. People are stealing it because they high prices..<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Man, what are you talking about? Here in the U.S. CD prices have dropped since the warez epidemic hit. CD's, which used to all be sold at $15-17, can now be purchased for $10 in an attempt to bring back CD buyers. So stealing the music has made prices drop - complete opposite of what you claim.

[Paavo]

Downloading applications is wrong, and obviously illegal.
I don't think price has anyhing to do with it, really...cars are expensive as hell but you're not stealing cars, are you?
To be honest, I think the reason people steal programs, games, movies, music is because they can.
I'm a hypocrite by saying it's wrong and immoral, because I do it too...but it's the way I see it.

[Pooeypants]

Warez is stealing, pure and simple, whether I agree with its use might be another matter but it is illegal activity. Infact, I don't see you going down to the shops and stealing bars of chocolate...why do that with software? But the most obvious reason is that its easy and from comfort of your chair. Let us hope the gov't passes law to allow quicker eradication of such wide spread activity. Or we can just bring down capitalism and democracy, instigate communism where there is no thing as copywrite or patents...is that nice?

[Aliyaho]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Paavo,)
Downloading applications is wrong, and obviously illegal.
I don't think price has anyhing to do with it, really...cars are expensive as hell but you're not stealing cars, are you?
To be honest, I think the reason people steal programs, games, movies, music is because they can.
I'm a hypocrite by saying it's wrong and immoral, because I do it too...but it's the way I see it. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

You can't compare stealing cars to stealing software. The penalties for stealing a car are far greater than stealing software from the Internet. Along with the fact that downloading software is no longer seen as immoral in public eye. Pirating is just a part of life now, and there is something definately wrong with that.

[darwinist]

Well it is good news, that prices have fallen for music Cd's. They have also done the same here in Europe.

But games, have become even more expensive, at least here in the Netherlands.

I do not think warez alone made music Cd's cheaper. I think it also has to do with the 'News', that Cd's only cost $1 to make.

[RebelWithanAK]

The prices have falled to $13 on the average CD, yes, but that's simply Too Little, Too Late from a marketing perspective. The companies have already alienated their consumers, having blamed them for not keeping up sales figures in 2002 and 2003 - despite the economic downturn - and having sought draconian measures to sue institution and individual alike in filesharing.

Frankly, from a moral perspective, we don't owe them jack shit because they exploit the artists just as much as we do. If you wanna make yourself feel better, mail 5 bucks to your favorite artist every time you rip a CD.

[cheesemage]

From a moral standpoint,I think it's stealing luxuries, and that isn't right since they aren't integral to exsistence.

From an economic standpoints it's exploiters being exploited. If they sold for lower prices they would sell more, yes there would still be piracy, but it would be less of a problem.

[RebelWithanAK]

I'd like to see YOU go through life without music.

[castille]

Well, I can live without music.


I've never listened to any music in my life (other than music they broadcast in shopping centres or television).

In fact, I have only listened to music that was a requirement for school (we had compulsory music class). Other than that, I find music useless for my life.


As for other software, well if warez is there, people will take it. Hell, my first "businesss" at 12 was selling pirated games. If Bill Gates can't compete, not my problem.

[G. Adams]

Ahh, you don't listen to music? That might be why your a heartless bastard. Ignorant too, but I can't blame you for that.

[darwinist]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
The prices have falled to $13 on the average CD, yes, but that's simply Too Little, Too Late from a marketing perspective.

<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Perphaps it is from a marketing perspective. But not from a Business perspective.

This stealing, is not only damaging to the music companies. The artist him/herself.But is also damaging to your local record store. Therefore, damaging to the jobs and ecomony of your area. If everyone does it. Then the world. The main reason, that it is accepted. In many peoples eyes. Is tht we are jealous of the music conpanies and record artists. Because the most obvious ones are very rich. The massess are poor.

But it is stealing, no matter how you want to justify it.

Let look at this from a Business perspective.

An aprox break up of Cd costs. From every Cd.
$1 to make a Cd, $1 royalty payment, $1 Stereo time $1 transportation, $1 Middle-men, $1 advertising/promotion, $1, $1 Record company.

Ok, lets say $8 purchase price for record stores.

Out of there $5 profit. They have to pay: Wages, taxation, utilties and rent.

Rent of a high street shop in the Netherlands is anywhere between $800 to $2000 per month.

Lets take the $800 per month. Lets also put the whole profit of the Cd's to pay for this. This means your local record store has to sell 160 Cd's per month just to pay his/her rent. This company still has to pay for other things. Before they make a profit. Think about this before you steal your next Cd.

[G. Adams]

If everybody does it, and refuses to buy cd's at all, all the pop starts will die away, and we'll be left with, wait for it, musicians! Oh the day when I turn on a music station and don't have to listen through an hour of crap for one decent track will be a good one.

or even better we could have a rebirth of music, with people learning to play instruments for themselves. I know rebel said this before, and i even had a dig cause i couldn't play anything back then, but now I can and I even enjoyspending two hours of getting it wrong just to get 30 secs of good music.

[RebelWithanAK]

It's a fun and uplifting thing to play music, G. =]

And just to show I'm working in good humor - I'm literally sealing an envelope right now with five bucks in it and sending it off to Willie Colon, to show my appreciation for his music. No return addy, cuz I don't want to get sued by overzealous artistry, but it'd really be a PR blow to the record execs if people started picking up on this...

[white rice]

Warez is a Pandora's Box because its so easy to get anything you want with some time. For that 50 dollars in software you could get a small TV or something you can hold. Not a lot of people will support strangers who they don't know or relate to when given a choice of getting it for free. I'm not saying that a lot of people are amoral, but self interests sometimes takes a greater precedent over the interests of others. Isn't that capitalism at work?